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I would like to be optimistic and think we all learn valuable lessons from this but realistically most people will just double-down in their convictions and bla

I would like to be optimistic and think we all learn valuable lessons from this but realistically most people will just double-down in their convictions and blame some other externality as to why their own political/economic ideologies didn't pan out.

brobdingnagians 7y ago
We haven't yet seen the full effects of the current political shift or of the measures being taken. It may be premature to believe we know all of the lessons that are to be learned from this, or even that the ones we believe we are learning are grounded in data. Hindsight will make all of this much more clear.
- komali2 7y ago
  But politics is nothing if not consistent - who was blamed and who was punished for the 2008 financial crisis? Don't be rational when you answer that question. Remember back to what Ted Cruz and Mitch McConnel were saying, and remember that people believed them.
chadmeister 7y ago
Looking like you are right about this. Approval ratings are up somehow: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/
- devmunchies 7y ago
  >somehow because this is seen as an external threat and not an internal blunder. Similar to 9/11. Countrymen tend to band together and support the leader when faced with a crisis, regardless of the leader.
  - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
    What is particularly infuriating is this specific leader made it much worse by doing things like closing the pandemic response team a couple years ago and calling it a big Democratic hoax until recently. TBH, it's very difficult to look at that 538 chart and not come to the conclusion that a large portion of Americans are idiots. And I'm not even talking about whether or not they support Trump, I'm talking about how it is quite clear they are not able to make logical inferences of true cause and effect (e.g. what Trump is possibly responsible for and what he's not), instead they are just like reeds in the wind blowing whichever way their TV sets or friends tell them.
    - nwienert 7y ago
      Your hoax remark is purely false. From the quite-liberal Snopes: "Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax." He said Democrats were politicizing it, which is fair. It's obvious he was just playing politics as well, and also trying to keep people from panic-buying. Meanwhile, the border was already shut down with China, before February, far earlier than many other countries. You're running around calling Americans idiots just like Hillary called them deplorables. Meanwhile you obviously are buying false narratives and pulling at selectively chosen data that affirms your narrative... all I'll say is, the problem may not be "Americans".
      - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
        OK, here is the full text of what Trump actually said: > Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa, they can’t even count. No they can’t. They can’t count their votes. > One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that. So I'll just let his words stand for themselves. What is exactly is it that he is referring to as a "hoax" then? That the virus needs to be taken very seriously and is definitely not in the same vein as seasonal flu, as he's done multiple times, or directly contradicted actual experts like Dr. Fauci right on the same podium? Saying "your hoax remark is purely false" is total bullshit. Again, I'll just let Trump's words above stand for themselves.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 7y ago
  Time will tell whether it's a crisis bump or a sustained trend. I wouldn't give it much weight for now.
specialp 7y ago
People are probably going to take the bailouts and not think at all that their "free-market" and unbridled capitalism approach is wrong. We know this because it happened in 2008. In reality it isn't unbridled capitalism because if it was it would result in massive bankruptcy and people hurting bad as they did in the depression. But since neither 2008 and today has been show to deliver the hurt that 1929 did yet, I don't think we will see the appetite for massive social programs that FDR enjoyed. Those people saw what it was like to be penniless and nearly starving.

brobdingnagians 7y ago

We haven't yet seen the full effects of the current political shift or of the measures being taken. It may be premature to believe we know all of the lessons that are to be learned from this, or even that the ones we believe we are learning are grounded in data. Hindsight will make all of this much more clear.

komali2 7y ago
But politics is nothing if not consistent - who was blamed and who was punished for the 2008 financial crisis? Don't be rational when you answer that question. Remember back to what Ted Cruz and Mitch McConnel were saying, and remember that people believed them.

chadmeister 7y ago

Looking like you are right about this. Approval ratings are up somehow: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/ https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

devmunchies 7y ago
>somehow because this is seen as an external threat and not an internal blunder. Similar to 9/11. Countrymen tend to band together and support the leader when faced with a crisis, regardless of the leader.
- hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
  What is particularly infuriating is this specific leader made it much worse by doing things like closing the pandemic response team a couple years ago and calling it a big Democratic hoax until recently. TBH, it's very difficult to look at that 538 chart and not come to the conclusion that a large portion of Americans are idiots. And I'm not even talking about whether or not they support Trump, I'm talking about how it is quite clear they are not able to make logical inferences of true cause and effect (e.g. what Trump is possibly responsible for and what he's not), instead they are just like reeds in the wind blowing whichever way their TV sets or friends tell them.
  - nwienert 7y ago
    Your hoax remark is purely false. From the quite-liberal Snopes: "Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax." He said Democrats were politicizing it, which is fair. It's obvious he was just playing politics as well, and also trying to keep people from panic-buying. Meanwhile, the border was already shut down with China, before February, far earlier than many other countries. You're running around calling Americans idiots just like Hillary called them deplorables. Meanwhile you obviously are buying false narratives and pulling at selectively chosen data that affirms your narrative... all I'll say is, the problem may not be "Americans".
    - hn_throwaway_99 7y ago
      OK, here is the full text of what Trump actually said: > Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus. You know that, right? Coronavirus. They’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, ‘How’s President Trump doing?’ They go, ‘Oh, not good, not good.’ They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa, they can’t even count. No they can’t. They can’t count their votes. > One of my people came up to me and said, ‘Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia. That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning, they lost, it’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. But you know, we did something that’s been pretty amazing. We’re 15 people [cases of coronavirus infection] in this massive country. And because of the fact that we went early, we went early, we could have had a lot more than that. So I'll just let his words stand for themselves. What is exactly is it that he is referring to as a "hoax" then? That the virus needs to be taken very seriously and is definitely not in the same vein as seasonal flu, as he's done multiple times, or directly contradicted actual experts like Dr. Fauci right on the same podium? Saying "your hoax remark is purely false" is total bullshit. Again, I'll just let Trump's words above stand for themselves.
Obi_Juan_Kenobi 7y ago
Time will tell whether it's a crisis bump or a sustained trend. I wouldn't give it much weight for now.

specialp 7y ago

People are probably going to take the bailouts and not think at all that their "free-market" and unbridled capitalism approach is wrong. We know this because it happened in 2008. In reality it isn't unbridled capitalism because if it was it would result in massive bankruptcy and people hurting bad as they did in the depression. But since neither 2008 and today has been show to deliver the hurt that 1929 did yet, I don't think we will see the appetite for massive social programs that FDR enjoyed. Those people saw what it was like to be penniless and nearly starving.