5 ms·

WFH will seriously hurt any internship. I think it's for the best, but it won't be nearly as good as actually being in-person with engineers.

jimmaswell 7y ago
WFH being worse is debatable, but people entering the workforce need internships now more than ever. Companies canceling them are failing in their social responsibility unless they suddenly can't afford the interns due to lost business.
- navidr 7y ago
  Companies mostly calculated the cost and devoted the investment for recruiting the intern beforehand.
- throwqwerty 7y ago
  >Companies canceling them are failing in their social responsibility do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? companies that continue to have internships are doing so because if they do not then they won't meet hiring quotas for next year (and will then be short-staffed because of churn).
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    > do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? By proxy when the unpopularity of a decision impacts revenue/public perception. We can choose not to do business with companies that are especially unconscionable. And once in a while someone at the head of a company does just do something good too.
    - throwqwerty 7y ago
      >By proxy when the unpopularity of a decision impacts revenue/public perception. We can choose not to do business with companies that are especially unconscionable. do you really live in a fairy tale? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products#Continued_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n... https://theintercept.com/2020/03/23/gilead-sciences-coronavirus-treatment-orphan-drug-status/ https://theintercept.com/2020/03/23/gilead-sciences-coronavi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi... just off the top of my head
      - jimmaswell 7y ago
        none of that disproves anything I said, and the fact PR departments exist proves perception matters.
        throwqwerty 7y ago
        >none of that disproves anything I said i love people like you. gets presented with evidence to the contrary and just completely dismisses it. have you ever considered that you might let it roll around in your head before you make the call that none of it disproves anything you said? have you really done the due diligence on the examples i've furnished?
        jimmaswell 7y ago
        I'm familiar with most of it. Yes, obviously companies do bad things all the time, often get away eith it, and sociopaths are more likely to rise to high positions. How does that mean we can't judge companies for their actions and try to hold them to standards? Especially in this age where information travels so easily? Here's one case of public reaction doing something: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/social-media-shaming-can-outrage-be-effective/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/social-media-sha... How slavery free diamonds became a selling point works too. Because people didn't want to buy blood diamonds so the business had to change.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - mygo 7y ago
    > do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? Yes. These businesses exist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibil... I learned about a few of them during the Sustainable Business Strategy course I took by Dr. Rebecca Henderson, who teaches Reimagining Capitalism in the MBA Program at Harvard Business School and is on the board of Ceres, a membership organization whose member companies are known to include such social responsibility and governance practices (collectively called ESG) in their businesses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental,_social_and_corporate_governance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental,_social_and_co... There is also the triple bottom line accounting framework. There is at least one incorporated entity on the planet that makes decisions based on this accounting framework: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line Right now a lot of companies who are seeing a slump but will be able to stay in operation after making some changes will be making decisions between laying off staff and cutting costs some other way (such as the executives taking pay cuts). This may be one way to help identify who they are. Watch for news of companies whose executives are foregoing their salaries and bonuses and dividends during this crisis in order to avoid laying people off that they could just lay off due to the slump.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  > people entering the workforce need internships now more than ever. What is the noncircular reason for that?
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    People need money more during a massive recession?
- sushid 7y ago
  Newsflash: companies don't do this as a "social responsibility." I'm already personally finding it hard to onboard new engineers on the team. I don't think many would be keen to essentially lose one good engineer (as they'd be the mentor) to remotely ramp up one intern who may or may not be good and if the latter, may or may not return for a return offer.
  - jimmaswell 7y ago
    Condescending trite like "nEwSfLaSh" will win you no favors. Go read the rest of the thread, I'm not repeating myself.

jimmaswell 7y ago

WFH being worse is debatable, but people entering the workforce need internships now more than ever. Companies canceling them are failing in their social responsibility unless they suddenly can't afford the interns due to lost business.

navidr 7y ago
Companies mostly calculated the cost and devoted the investment for recruiting the intern beforehand.
throwqwerty 7y ago
>Companies canceling them are failing in their social responsibility do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? companies that continue to have internships are doing so because if they do not then they won't meet hiring quotas for next year (and will then be short-staffed because of churn).
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  > do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? By proxy when the unpopularity of a decision impacts revenue/public perception. We can choose not to do business with companies that are especially unconscionable. And once in a while someone at the head of a company does just do something good too.
  - throwqwerty 7y ago
    >By proxy when the unpopularity of a decision impacts revenue/public perception. We can choose not to do business with companies that are especially unconscionable. do you really live in a fairy tale? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products#Continued_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhopal_disaster https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-nations-nestle-running-water https://www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/04/ontario-six-n... https://theintercept.com/2020/03/23/gilead-sciences-coronavirus-treatment-orphan-drug-status/ https://theintercept.com/2020/03/23/gilead-sciences-coronavi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fi... just off the top of my head
    - jimmaswell 7y ago
      none of that disproves anything I said, and the fact PR departments exist proves perception matters.
      - throwqwerty 7y ago
        >none of that disproves anything I said i love people like you. gets presented with evidence to the contrary and just completely dismisses it. have you ever considered that you might let it roll around in your head before you make the call that none of it disproves anything you said? have you really done the due diligence on the examples i've furnished?
        jimmaswell 7y ago
        I'm familiar with most of it. Yes, obviously companies do bad things all the time, often get away eith it, and sociopaths are more likely to rise to high positions. How does that mean we can't judge companies for their actions and try to hold them to standards? Especially in this age where information travels so easily? Here's one case of public reaction doing something: https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/social-media-shaming-can-outrage-be-effective/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/social-media-sha... How slavery free diamonds became a selling point works too. Because people didn't want to buy blood diamonds so the business had to change.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- mygo 7y ago
  > do you really believe there's a single incorporated entity on the planet that makes decision based on social responsibility? Yes. These businesses exist. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibility https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_social_responsibil... I learned about a few of them during the Sustainable Business Strategy course I took by Dr. Rebecca Henderson, who teaches Reimagining Capitalism in the MBA Program at Harvard Business School and is on the board of Ceres, a membership organization whose member companies are known to include such social responsibility and governance practices (collectively called ESG) in their businesses. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental,_social_and_corporate_governance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental,_social_and_co... There is also the triple bottom line accounting framework. There is at least one incorporated entity on the planet that makes decisions based on this accounting framework: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_bottom_line Right now a lot of companies who are seeing a slump but will be able to stay in operation after making some changes will be making decisions between laying off staff and cutting costs some other way (such as the executives taking pay cuts). This may be one way to help identify who they are. Watch for news of companies whose executives are foregoing their salaries and bonuses and dividends during this crisis in order to avoid laying people off that they could just lay off due to the slump.
lonelappde 7y ago
> people entering the workforce need internships now more than ever. What is the noncircular reason for that?
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  People need money more during a massive recession?
sushid 7y ago
Newsflash: companies don't do this as a "social responsibility." I'm already personally finding it hard to onboard new engineers on the team. I don't think many would be keen to essentially lose one good engineer (as they'd be the mentor) to remotely ramp up one intern who may or may not be good and if the latter, may or may not return for a return offer.
- jimmaswell 7y ago
  Condescending trite like "nEwSfLaSh" will win you no favors. Go read the rest of the thread, I'm not repeating myself.