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> they find programming computers simple because they're not really programming Actually, the "learn javascript in 24 hours" crowd finds out the hard way that

> they find programming computers simple because they're not really programming Actually, the "learn javascript in 24 hours" crowd finds out the hard way that programming computers is orders of magnitude harder than they initially thought... but they still insist that it's because gatekeeping programmers are artificially making it harder than it has to be.

perl4ever 7y ago
When I was a kid, I started with BASIC, but I thought of "real programming" as being compiled languages, particularly C and assembler. Then in college I had a course where we wrote microcode for an imaginary CPU. FPGAs weren't really a thing then, but I would have liked to take a course with those. Now after years of Perl and SQL, I've come full circle back to (Visual) Basic. But I would say assembly language is generally easier than javascript. In most cases (maybe not x86) there's a limited number of operations you can perform, and straightforward conventions on how to do them. Everything is documented (yes I know you can quibble with that, but relatively speaking) and there aren't ten different ways to do something of which 9 are wrong. You aren't dealing with all the layers of abstraction that tend to leak through either.
- spc476 7y ago
  Assembly may be easier, but programming in assembly is a lot more tedious. A simple expression like "y=7*x+5" is at least four instructions, assuming you have a MUL instruction. And string manipulation is just as bad, if not worse, than in C.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Two on Intel, assuming the values should go in registers: imul rY, rX, 7 add rY, 5
    - commandlinefan 7y ago
      I assume he's including the: mov rX, [...] ... mov [...], rY
BoorishBears 7y ago
I'm sorry but > but they still insist that it's because gatekeeping programmers are artificially making it harder than it has to be. What??????? I mean... what? You're saying that beginners find programming harder than they expected... and then say the reason it is harder is because programmers are artificially making it harder than it has to be? Did you mistype this comment? Wasn't your original point that they don't even bother with the stuff you're saying... gatekeeping programmers artificially make harder. What even is this, you're slaving so hard to make "that crowd" seem like a bunch of misguided ingrates that you've ceased to even remain internally consistent to your own point.

perl4ever 7y ago

When I was a kid, I started with BASIC, but I thought of "real programming" as being compiled languages, particularly C and assembler. Then in college I had a course where we wrote microcode for an imaginary CPU. FPGAs weren't really a thing then, but I would have liked to take a course with those. Now after years of Perl and SQL, I've come full circle back to (Visual) Basic. But I would say assembly language is generally easier than javascript. In most cases (maybe not x86) there's a limited number of operations you can perform, and straightforward conventions on how to do them. Everything is documented (yes I know you can quibble with that, but relatively speaking) and there aren't ten different ways to do something of which 9 are wrong. You aren't dealing with all the layers of abstraction that tend to leak through either.

spc476 7y ago
Assembly may be easier, but programming in assembly is a lot more tedious. A simple expression like "y=7*x+5" is at least four instructions, assuming you have a MUL instruction. And string manipulation is just as bad, if not worse, than in C.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Two on Intel, assuming the values should go in registers: imul rY, rX, 7 add rY, 5
  - commandlinefan 7y ago
    I assume he's including the: mov rX, [...] ... mov [...], rY

BoorishBears 7y ago

I'm sorry but > but they still insist that it's because gatekeeping programmers are artificially making it harder than it has to be. What??????? I mean... what? You're saying that beginners find programming harder than they expected... and then say the reason it is harder is because programmers are artificially making it harder than it has to be? Did you mistype this comment? Wasn't your original point that they don't even bother with the stuff you're saying... gatekeeping programmers artificially make harder. What even is this, you're slaving so hard to make "that crowd" seem like a bunch of misguided ingrates that you've ceased to even remain internally consistent to your own point.