6 ms·

We over index on preparedness for war. Bill gates has a great ted talk on this who basically called this corona virus situation a few years ago. https://www.ted

We over index on preparedness for war. Bill gates has a great ted talk on this who basically called this corona virus situation a few years ago. https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re... When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority.

throwaway32120 7y ago
And like most things in America, the military costs much more than other countries and does much less for its citizens. A good example is what happened when Yemen fell apart: China used its military to evacuate Chinese citizens[1], India used its military to evacuate its citizens[2], and the US told its citizens that they were on their own[3]. The American embassy even told Americans trapped in Yemen that they should seek out the help of India in order to get out of the country[4]. It's hard to escape the notion that for decades America has suffered under a political class that's been a mix of incompetent, self-serving, and uncaring. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans-stuck-in-yemen-youre-on-your-own-evacuation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08/india-leads-rescue-of-foreign-nationals-including-americans-trapped-in-yemen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08...
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I've read that same thing about the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami. Other countries worked hard to help their citizens and get them out. The US just abandoned theirs.
mistermann 7y ago
> When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority. I'm not overly familiar with how the US medical system works at a detail level, but is it illegal for individual hospitals, clinics, dental offices, etc to independently stockpile critical supplies?
- vajrabum 7y ago
  No, but hospitals are mostly for profit in the US so they don't. They run lean so as to make the best return on investment. That's also why we have as few hospital beds as we do. Most US hospitals used to be non-profit. When they were converted to for profit institutions there was a concerted decades long effort to reduce hospital stays and the beds that requires. Completely understandable given the need to make as much money as possible.
  - danans 7y ago
    This points to an obvious bit of legislation that we need in the US: require hospitals to keep minimum stockpiles of pandemic response supplies, just like banks have minimum financial reserve requirements.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      Given that there's an accute shortage of hospitals serving rural areas, regulation of that nature better be accompanied by federal funding for that work. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious DHS money redirected to hospitals, after this is all over. They could certainly put it to better use than police departments.
      - mistermann 7y ago
        Alternatively, you could assign maintaining the mask inventory to admin staff. I know they often don't have advanced degrees, but I can't imagine they'd do a worse job of it. Actually, they'd probably take the job a lot more seriously than the "experts" who are in charge currently. Assigning such tasks to a central body seems like an extremely fragile design, and as evidence for this assertion, I offer the current state of reality. I find it a rather convincing argument, but then I'm probably quite biased.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    Yes, this seems like the obvious explanation to me as well. My question was regarding the other poster's proposed explanation: "When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority." Simple profit maximization seems like a much better fit to me. I suspect if we were to sit down and do an actually proper post-mortem on this debacle, it would mostly reveal a giant pile of simple explanations like this. I doubt this situation is nearly as complicated or conspiratorial as most people are making it out to be. Rather, it is simply optimizing for a particular variable, and if people aren't smart enough to realize that other variables are going to suffer correspondingly, and this low quality of thinking becomes prevalent enough that it becomes a literal existential threat, then I think it's about time the citizens of planet Earth put down their weapons for 2 or 3 months, and had a serious conversation. I believe that if people continue to communicate in literal untruths, often knowingly, it will not be long until our demise as a species. Covid-19 feels to me like a warning from a different dimension. Whether this is literally true, if conceptualizing it in this way helps people to actually fucking think for a change, I say let's roll with it, or whatever other weird psychological sleights of hand get the job done. And I suggest we do it fast, because if we continue on this same downward trajectory (with increasing speed), it may not even take an anomalous event like this for us to wipe ourselves out. I think we need some new ideas. I feel like we have to form a new internet community of some kind, not unlike what we have now (reddit, the software itself with a few minor feature additions & subtractions, would be more than sufficient). The main change, the change that I believe would make the difference, would be extremely strict new guidelines around acceptable behavior, that are enforced with extreme prejudice. I actually believe there is one single rule that could fix the overwhelming majority of these problems, and here it is: > RULE #1: It is completely forbidden to say things that are not true. Ever. Violations of this rule will result in increasingly severe punishments, ultimately resulting in a permanent ban. Read that sentence, and be careful your mind doesn't start automatically generating ideas that prove it "impossible" (this word, like so many others, no longer has a common shared definition) - if it does, just make it stop and return to reading the sentence. Try to bring a sense of peace into your mind, it is likely not going to like that so it will be a struggle, but hang in there. Try to contemplate what is truly being said here, truly consider if "only say things that are true" is really such a ridiculously high goal, at least for us to aim towards. Is this not very similar (but more stringent) to what our parents taught us when we were growing up? Is truthfulness too much for us to even try for at this point in humanity's evolution? If I am the only one that sees this as an attainable, righteous, and pragmatically useful goal, then I'm not really sure if I want to be here any more. I feel like I don't have anything in common with anyone. I don't like what Earth is becoming. I feel like an alien here, like I am of a different kind of some sort, like I don't belong here, like I have somehow wound up in the incorrect dimension. Can no one else see what I'm talking about? Have I completely lost the plot? Someone has to do something. I wish someone would at least try. I wish someone could at least even admit that there's a problem. If we can't even agree that there's a problem, and roughly what the nature of that problem is, or even agree that this is something worth looking into, I feel like we should just wrap this whole thing up, because our days are numbered anyways.
danans 7y ago
The dust hasn't settled on this yet, but it appears that countries that are in a siege military footing (S. Korea, Israel, Cuba, Taiwan) have done better in controlling this situation because they have strong universal health systems and institutions coupled with mentality of constant preparation for a military siege. The culture of real preparedness is present throughout those countries' institutions, military or not. This was discussed by Max Brooks on Fresh Air yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-could-have-been-prevented-author-max-brooks-on-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-c... What Brooks doesn't discuss is the extent to which those countries have varying degrees of authoritarianism or the tendency for citizens to voluntarily comply with public orders. In the US however, our military stockpiling is geared toward propping up defense industries. This has value to a point, but only when its objectives are actually defense preparedness, but not when the objectives are profit maximization. The military is no substitute for having properly resourced and coordinated national institutions to deal with huge public health issues.
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  The difference with those four countries is that they expect fighting a war on their own soil to be a future possibility. When's the last time Americans actually saw what war on their doorstep looks like? The civil war? America's real defense is the Pacific and Atlantic. The US military is a raiding force that's free to attack anywhere in the world without fear of retaliation because they know the American continent is geographically unassailable.
  - danans 7y ago
    > they know the American continent is geographically unassailable. And COVID19 is turning that assumption on its head. The only question that remains is whether the US can buttress what's left of its public health institutions to keep it at bay, and prepare for the next wave that comes, whether of this pandemic or the next one.
    - ethbro 7y ago

throwaway32120 7y ago

And like most things in America, the military costs much more than other countries and does much less for its citizens. A good example is what happened when Yemen fell apart: China used its military to evacuate Chinese citizens[1], India used its military to evacuate its citizens[2], and the US told its citizens that they were on their own[3]. The American embassy even told Americans trapped in Yemen that they should seek out the help of India in order to get out of the country[4]. It's hard to escape the notion that for decades America has suffered under a political class that's been a mix of incompetent, self-serving, and uncaring. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans-stuck-in-yemen-youre-on-your-own-evacuation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08/india-leads-rescue-of-foreign-nationals-including-americans-trapped-in-yemen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08...

Gibbon1 7y ago
I've read that same thing about the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami. Other countries worked hard to help their citizens and get them out. The US just abandoned theirs.

mistermann 7y ago

> When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority. I'm not overly familiar with how the US medical system works at a detail level, but is it illegal for individual hospitals, clinics, dental offices, etc to independently stockpile critical supplies?

vajrabum 7y ago
No, but hospitals are mostly for profit in the US so they don't. They run lean so as to make the best return on investment. That's also why we have as few hospital beds as we do. Most US hospitals used to be non-profit. When they were converted to for profit institutions there was a concerted decades long effort to reduce hospital stays and the beds that requires. Completely understandable given the need to make as much money as possible.
- danans 7y ago
  This points to an obvious bit of legislation that we need in the US: require hospitals to keep minimum stockpiles of pandemic response supplies, just like banks have minimum financial reserve requirements.
  - ethbro 7y ago
    Given that there's an accute shortage of hospitals serving rural areas, regulation of that nature better be accompanied by federal funding for that work. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious DHS money redirected to hospitals, after this is all over. They could certainly put it to better use than police departments.
    - mistermann 7y ago
      Alternatively, you could assign maintaining the mask inventory to admin staff. I know they often don't have advanced degrees, but I can't imagine they'd do a worse job of it. Actually, they'd probably take the job a lot more seriously than the "experts" who are in charge currently. Assigning such tasks to a central body seems like an extremely fragile design, and as evidence for this assertion, I offer the current state of reality. I find it a rather convincing argument, but then I'm probably quite biased.
- mistermann 7y ago
  Yes, this seems like the obvious explanation to me as well. My question was regarding the other poster's proposed explanation: "When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority." Simple profit maximization seems like a much better fit to me. I suspect if we were to sit down and do an actually proper post-mortem on this debacle, it would mostly reveal a giant pile of simple explanations like this. I doubt this situation is nearly as complicated or conspiratorial as most people are making it out to be. Rather, it is simply optimizing for a particular variable, and if people aren't smart enough to realize that other variables are going to suffer correspondingly, and this low quality of thinking becomes prevalent enough that it becomes a literal existential threat, then I think it's about time the citizens of planet Earth put down their weapons for 2 or 3 months, and had a serious conversation. I believe that if people continue to communicate in literal untruths, often knowingly, it will not be long until our demise as a species. Covid-19 feels to me like a warning from a different dimension. Whether this is literally true, if conceptualizing it in this way helps people to actually fucking think for a change, I say let's roll with it, or whatever other weird psychological sleights of hand get the job done. And I suggest we do it fast, because if we continue on this same downward trajectory (with increasing speed), it may not even take an anomalous event like this for us to wipe ourselves out. I think we need some new ideas. I feel like we have to form a new internet community of some kind, not unlike what we have now (reddit, the software itself with a few minor feature additions & subtractions, would be more than sufficient). The main change, the change that I believe would make the difference, would be extremely strict new guidelines around acceptable behavior, that are enforced with extreme prejudice. I actually believe there is one single rule that could fix the overwhelming majority of these problems, and here it is: > RULE #1: It is completely forbidden to say things that are not true. Ever. Violations of this rule will result in increasingly severe punishments, ultimately resulting in a permanent ban. Read that sentence, and be careful your mind doesn't start automatically generating ideas that prove it "impossible" (this word, like so many others, no longer has a common shared definition) - if it does, just make it stop and return to reading the sentence. Try to bring a sense of peace into your mind, it is likely not going to like that so it will be a struggle, but hang in there. Try to contemplate what is truly being said here, truly consider if "only say things that are true" is really such a ridiculously high goal, at least for us to aim towards. Is this not very similar (but more stringent) to what our parents taught us when we were growing up? Is truthfulness too much for us to even try for at this point in humanity's evolution? If I am the only one that sees this as an attainable, righteous, and pragmatically useful goal, then I'm not really sure if I want to be here any more. I feel like I don't have anything in common with anyone. I don't like what Earth is becoming. I feel like an alien here, like I am of a different kind of some sort, like I don't belong here, like I have somehow wound up in the incorrect dimension. Can no one else see what I'm talking about? Have I completely lost the plot? Someone has to do something. I wish someone would at least try. I wish someone could at least even admit that there's a problem. If we can't even agree that there's a problem, and roughly what the nature of that problem is, or even agree that this is something worth looking into, I feel like we should just wrap this whole thing up, because our days are numbered anyways.

danans 7y ago

The dust hasn't settled on this yet, but it appears that countries that are in a siege military footing (S. Korea, Israel, Cuba, Taiwan) have done better in controlling this situation because they have strong universal health systems and institutions coupled with mentality of constant preparation for a military siege. The culture of real preparedness is present throughout those countries' institutions, military or not. This was discussed by Max Brooks on Fresh Air yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-could-have-been-prevented-author-max-brooks-on-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-c... What Brooks doesn't discuss is the extent to which those countries have varying degrees of authoritarianism or the tendency for citizens to voluntarily comply with public orders. In the US however, our military stockpiling is geared toward propping up defense industries. This has value to a point, but only when its objectives are actually defense preparedness, but not when the objectives are profit maximization. The military is no substitute for having properly resourced and coordinated national institutions to deal with huge public health issues.

magicsmoke 7y ago
The difference with those four countries is that they expect fighting a war on their own soil to be a future possibility. When's the last time Americans actually saw what war on their doorstep looks like? The civil war? America's real defense is the Pacific and Atlantic. The US military is a raiding force that's free to attack anywhere in the world without fear of retaliation because they know the American continent is geographically unassailable.
- danans 7y ago
  > they know the American continent is geographically unassailable. And COVID19 is turning that assumption on its head. The only question that remains is whether the US can buttress what's left of its public health institutions to keep it at bay, and prepare for the next wave that comes, whether of this pandemic or the next one.
  - ethbro 7y ago