4 ms·

Agreed. Was thinking how our Internet infrastructure has built in redundancy, chaos monkey for services, etc... Engineers understand that things can and will fa

by fma 7y ago

Agreed. Was thinking how our Internet infrastructure has built in redundancy, chaos monkey for services, etc... Engineers understand that things can and will fail. If we build the Internet like the "just in time" supply chain - we'd all be screwed. What's also sad is that people could see in January that this would be a global issue. Domestic production should have ramped up - at least buy us more time, translating to more flattening of the curve, less deaths...

watertom 7y ago
It's even bigger than that. We should be looking at strategic sourcing, just like we do with oil. Not all manufacturing should be allowed offshore. The SEC evaluates mergers, as part of HomeLand Security we need offshoring evaluated. If you want to move your rubber dog bone production offshore, or if an industry wants to move ALL rubber dog bone production offshore, go for it. Critical items like ventilators. NOPE. Or Computing equipment, NOPE. There needs to be a list.
- mistermann 7y ago
  > If you want to move your rubber dog bone production offshore, or if an industry wants to move ALL rubber dog bone production offshore, go for it. Critical items like ventilators. NOPE. Or Computing equipment, NOPE. There needs to be a list. I think most people would agree with you, to some degree anyways. So let's say we put you in charge as "dictator for a year" for the USA, and your first task is doing a completely policy rewrite on how offshoring of any kind is handled. What methodology would you use to generate the list, with the goal being "optimizing for the well being of all Americans" (interpret that phrase to your liking)?
- cmurf 7y ago
  This list will be decried as excessive regulation, and we know which party will claim this. And in the name of profits and jobs, that list will get cut below the bare minimum once they have the votes to do so. It's not a majoritarian democracy, rather it's a system still biased toward landed elite, same as since the founding days, today these are corporations. Not even one minute after a pandemic, they will restate their position as: the disaster just happened thus can be ignored as impossible to happen again in our next two lifetimes, do you want to be the one to cost jobs and profits with your wild speculation?! You are leaving money on the table with your fantasies!
  - tracker1 7y ago
    I don't think that most, today, would see a requirement like dual sourcing + at least 50% domestic production for all medical equipment, devices and prescription medications would be excessive. It's about security and always has been. For that matter, I think similar requirements for all communications equipment, and this would include computers, cell phones and mobile devices would not be out of line as well at this point. Most of this crap happened roughly a century ago, including collapsed markets more than once. The above limitations as well as putting US banking closer to post-depression and canadian requirements would be a good idea as well. I'm very libertarian leaning... that said, I'm pragmatic, there's definitely room for having restrictions in place in leiu of the limited liability given to corporations. It's supposed to be a trade-off, not a give away.
  - makomk 7y ago
    For the past decade or so, the Republicans have generally been the ones who've worried about America's industries being offshored to China and the Democrats have been the ones who've downplayed those concerns as xenophobic nationalism from people who're stuck in the 50s. I've no doubt there'll be an attempt to rewrite history on this, but insofar as this has been a partisan divide it's been the other way around.
    - cmurf 7y ago
      It's nonsense to say Republicans worry about offshoring. They consistently oppose amendments and bills trying to stop it. They consistently support tax policies that incentivize it. https://aflcio.org/2017/11/8/republicans-defeat-stop-outsourcing-american-jobs-amendment https://aflcio.org/2017/11/8/republicans-defeat-stop-outsour... https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/396288-the-gop-tax-bill-rewards-offshoring-heres-what-we-can-do https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/39628... Republicans have been pro-global free trade for decades, until Donald Trump won the presidency on a protectionist platform. Republicans in Congress were opposed to Trump's tariffs before rolling over and at least not fighting him on them. But as most of their campaign contributions come from pro-global free trade and not domestic labor, they still consistently oppose amendments trying to reign in offshoring. Their "worry" is only that they'd get caught having a public message that's different than their actual votes on legislation. The Democratic party, for decades, have been pro-labor and pro-union platform. And it's fair to say in the past decade they are split between moderate free trade and weak support of domestic labor and unions. This weakness no doubt cost them votes in 2016.
tracker1 7y ago
It's funny you mention that... part of why I'm a minimist in terms of what I want from govt. That said, corporate welfare combined with a lack of dual sourcing and domestic production requirements are frightening. I think we definitely need to identify sectors, and specifically medical supplies, prescribed medications and prescribed medical devices should have dual sourcing requirements in addition to require at least 50% domestic production as requirements to sell in the US market. I am amazed at how well the logistics in terms of groceries and supply chains has held up. I wouldn't say that just-in-time has failed, it's worked surprisingly well. That isn't to say that all things should work that way, only countering expectations vs. results.

by fma 7y ago

watertom 7y ago

It's even bigger than that. We should be looking at strategic sourcing, just like we do with oil. Not all manufacturing should be allowed offshore. The SEC evaluates mergers, as part of HomeLand Security we need offshoring evaluated. If you want to move your rubber dog bone production offshore, or if an industry wants to move ALL rubber dog bone production offshore, go for it. Critical items like ventilators. NOPE. Or Computing equipment, NOPE. There needs to be a list.

mistermann 7y ago
> If you want to move your rubber dog bone production offshore, or if an industry wants to move ALL rubber dog bone production offshore, go for it. Critical items like ventilators. NOPE. Or Computing equipment, NOPE. There needs to be a list. I think most people would agree with you, to some degree anyways. So let's say we put you in charge as "dictator for a year" for the USA, and your first task is doing a completely policy rewrite on how offshoring of any kind is handled. What methodology would you use to generate the list, with the goal being "optimizing for the well being of all Americans" (interpret that phrase to your liking)?
cmurf 7y ago
This list will be decried as excessive regulation, and we know which party will claim this. And in the name of profits and jobs, that list will get cut below the bare minimum once they have the votes to do so. It's not a majoritarian democracy, rather it's a system still biased toward landed elite, same as since the founding days, today these are corporations. Not even one minute after a pandemic, they will restate their position as: the disaster just happened thus can be ignored as impossible to happen again in our next two lifetimes, do you want to be the one to cost jobs and profits with your wild speculation?! You are leaving money on the table with your fantasies!
- tracker1 7y ago
  I don't think that most, today, would see a requirement like dual sourcing + at least 50% domestic production for all medical equipment, devices and prescription medications would be excessive. It's about security and always has been. For that matter, I think similar requirements for all communications equipment, and this would include computers, cell phones and mobile devices would not be out of line as well at this point. Most of this crap happened roughly a century ago, including collapsed markets more than once. The above limitations as well as putting US banking closer to post-depression and canadian requirements would be a good idea as well. I'm very libertarian leaning... that said, I'm pragmatic, there's definitely room for having restrictions in place in leiu of the limited liability given to corporations. It's supposed to be a trade-off, not a give away.
- makomk 7y ago
  For the past decade or so, the Republicans have generally been the ones who've worried about America's industries being offshored to China and the Democrats have been the ones who've downplayed those concerns as xenophobic nationalism from people who're stuck in the 50s. I've no doubt there'll be an attempt to rewrite history on this, but insofar as this has been a partisan divide it's been the other way around.
  - cmurf 7y ago
    It's nonsense to say Republicans worry about offshoring. They consistently oppose amendments and bills trying to stop it. They consistently support tax policies that incentivize it. https://aflcio.org/2017/11/8/republicans-defeat-stop-outsourcing-american-jobs-amendment https://aflcio.org/2017/11/8/republicans-defeat-stop-outsour... https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/396288-the-gop-tax-bill-rewards-offshoring-heres-what-we-can-do https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/39628... Republicans have been pro-global free trade for decades, until Donald Trump won the presidency on a protectionist platform. Republicans in Congress were opposed to Trump's tariffs before rolling over and at least not fighting him on them. But as most of their campaign contributions come from pro-global free trade and not domestic labor, they still consistently oppose amendments trying to reign in offshoring. Their "worry" is only that they'd get caught having a public message that's different than their actual votes on legislation. The Democratic party, for decades, have been pro-labor and pro-union platform. And it's fair to say in the past decade they are split between moderate free trade and weak support of domestic labor and unions. This weakness no doubt cost them votes in 2016.

tracker1 7y ago

It's funny you mention that... part of why I'm a minimist in terms of what I want from govt. That said, corporate welfare combined with a lack of dual sourcing and domestic production requirements are frightening. I think we definitely need to identify sectors, and specifically medical supplies, prescribed medications and prescribed medical devices should have dual sourcing requirements in addition to require at least 50% domestic production as requirements to sell in the US market. I am amazed at how well the logistics in terms of groceries and supply chains has held up. I wouldn't say that just-in-time has failed, it's worked surprisingly well. That isn't to say that all things should work that way, only countering expectations vs. results.