4 ms·

I've been thinking along the same lines, that our lack of public preparedness for this is reflected in concentration of returns to capital at the top of the wea

by danans 7y ago

I've been thinking along the same lines, that our lack of public preparedness for this is reflected in concentration of returns to capital at the top of the wealth distribution. But that said, there are things the US stockpiles: corn, petroleum, and weapons.

quietthrow 7y ago
We over index on preparedness for war. Bill gates has a great ted talk on this who basically called this corona virus situation a few years ago. https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re... When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority.
- throwaway32120 7y ago
  And like most things in America, the military costs much more than other countries and does much less for its citizens. A good example is what happened when Yemen fell apart: China used its military to evacuate Chinese citizens[1], India used its military to evacuate its citizens[2], and the US told its citizens that they were on their own[3]. The American embassy even told Americans trapped in Yemen that they should seek out the help of India in order to get out of the country[4]. It's hard to escape the notion that for decades America has suffered under a political class that's been a mix of incompetent, self-serving, and uncaring. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans-stuck-in-yemen-youre-on-your-own-evacuation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08/india-leads-rescue-of-foreign-nationals-including-americans-trapped-in-yemen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08...
  - Gibbon1 7y ago
    I've read that same thing about the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami. Other countries worked hard to help their citizens and get them out. The US just abandoned theirs.
- mistermann 7y ago
  > When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority. I'm not overly familiar with how the US medical system works at a detail level, but is it illegal for individual hospitals, clinics, dental offices, etc to independently stockpile critical supplies?
  - vajrabum 7y ago
    No, but hospitals are mostly for profit in the US so they don't. They run lean so as to make the best return on investment. That's also why we have as few hospital beds as we do. Most US hospitals used to be non-profit. When they were converted to for profit institutions there was a concerted decades long effort to reduce hospital stays and the beds that requires. Completely understandable given the need to make as much money as possible.
    - danans 7y ago
      This points to an obvious bit of legislation that we need in the US: require hospitals to keep minimum stockpiles of pandemic response supplies, just like banks have minimum financial reserve requirements.
      - ethbro 7y ago
        Given that there's an accute shortage of hospitals serving rural areas, regulation of that nature better be accompanied by federal funding for that work. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious DHS money redirected to hospitals, after this is all over. They could certainly put it to better use than police departments.
        mistermann 7y ago
        Alternatively, you could assign maintaining the mask inventory to admin staff. I know they often don't have advanced degrees, but I can't imagine they'd do a worse job of it. Actually, they'd probably take the job a lot more seriously than the "experts" who are in charge currently. Assigning such tasks to a central body seems like an extremely fragile design, and as evidence for this assertion, I offer the current state of reality. I find it a rather convincing argument, but then I'm probably quite biased.
- danans 7y ago
  The dust hasn't settled on this yet, but it appears that countries that are in a siege military footing (S. Korea, Israel, Cuba, Taiwan) have done better in controlling this situation because they have strong universal health systems and institutions coupled with mentality of constant preparation for a military siege. The culture of real preparedness is present throughout those countries' institutions, military or not. This was discussed by Max Brooks on Fresh Air yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-could-have-been-prevented-author-max-brooks-on-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-c... What Brooks doesn't discuss is the extent to which those countries have varying degrees of authoritarianism or the tendency for citizens to voluntarily comply with public orders. In the US however, our military stockpiling is geared toward propping up defense industries. This has value to a point, but only when its objectives are actually defense preparedness, but not when the objectives are profit maximization. The military is no substitute for having properly resourced and coordinated national institutions to deal with huge public health issues.
  - magicsmoke 7y ago
    The difference with those four countries is that they expect fighting a war on their own soil to be a future possibility. When's the last time Americans actually saw what war on their doorstep looks like? The civil war? America's real defense is the Pacific and Atlantic. The US military is a raiding force that's free to attack anywhere in the world without fear of retaliation because they know the American continent is geographically unassailable.
    - danans 7y ago
      > they know the American continent is geographically unassailable. And COVID19 is turning that assumption on its head. The only question that remains is whether the US can buttress what's left of its public health institutions to keep it at bay, and prepare for the next wave that comes, whether of this pandemic or the next one.
      - ethbro 7y ago

by danans 7y ago

quietthrow 7y ago

We over index on preparedness for war. Bill gates has a great ted talk on this who basically called this corona virus situation a few years ago. https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready?language=en https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re... When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority.

throwaway32120 7y ago
And like most things in America, the military costs much more than other countries and does much less for its citizens. A good example is what happened when Yemen fell apart: China used its military to evacuate Chinese citizens[1], India used its military to evacuate its citizens[2], and the US told its citizens that they were on their own[3]. The American embassy even told Americans trapped in Yemen that they should seek out the help of India in order to get out of the country[4]. It's hard to escape the notion that for decades America has suffered under a political class that's been a mix of incompetent, self-serving, and uncaring. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32173811 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Raahat [3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans-stuck-in-yemen-youre-on-your-own-evacuation/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/04/21/washington-to-americans... [4] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08/india-leads-rescue-of-foreign-nationals-including-americans-trapped-in-yemen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/04/08...
- Gibbon1 7y ago
  I've read that same thing about the 2004 Boxing Day Tsunami. Other countries worked hard to help their citizens and get them out. The US just abandoned theirs.
mistermann 7y ago
> When I look at the whole situation it looks like a bunch of meatheads whose answer to everything is brawn and military superiority. I'm not overly familiar with how the US medical system works at a detail level, but is it illegal for individual hospitals, clinics, dental offices, etc to independently stockpile critical supplies?
- vajrabum 7y ago
  No, but hospitals are mostly for profit in the US so they don't. They run lean so as to make the best return on investment. That's also why we have as few hospital beds as we do. Most US hospitals used to be non-profit. When they were converted to for profit institutions there was a concerted decades long effort to reduce hospital stays and the beds that requires. Completely understandable given the need to make as much money as possible.
  - danans 7y ago
    This points to an obvious bit of legislation that we need in the US: require hospitals to keep minimum stockpiles of pandemic response supplies, just like banks have minimum financial reserve requirements.
    - ethbro 7y ago
      Given that there's an accute shortage of hospitals serving rural areas, regulation of that nature better be accompanied by federal funding for that work. I wouldn't be surprised to see some serious DHS money redirected to hospitals, after this is all over. They could certainly put it to better use than police departments.
      - mistermann 7y ago
        Alternatively, you could assign maintaining the mask inventory to admin staff. I know they often don't have advanced degrees, but I can't imagine they'd do a worse job of it. Actually, they'd probably take the job a lot more seriously than the "experts" who are in charge currently. Assigning such tasks to a central body seems like an extremely fragile design, and as evidence for this assertion, I offer the current state of reality. I find it a rather convincing argument, but then I'm probably quite biased.
danans 7y ago
The dust hasn't settled on this yet, but it appears that countries that are in a siege military footing (S. Korea, Israel, Cuba, Taiwan) have done better in controlling this situation because they have strong universal health systems and institutions coupled with mentality of constant preparation for a military siege. The culture of real preparedness is present throughout those countries' institutions, military or not. This was discussed by Max Brooks on Fresh Air yesterday: https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-could-have-been-prevented-author-max-brooks-on-covid-19 https://www.npr.org/2020/03/24/820601571/all-of-this-panic-c... What Brooks doesn't discuss is the extent to which those countries have varying degrees of authoritarianism or the tendency for citizens to voluntarily comply with public orders. In the US however, our military stockpiling is geared toward propping up defense industries. This has value to a point, but only when its objectives are actually defense preparedness, but not when the objectives are profit maximization. The military is no substitute for having properly resourced and coordinated national institutions to deal with huge public health issues.
- magicsmoke 7y ago
  The difference with those four countries is that they expect fighting a war on their own soil to be a future possibility. When's the last time Americans actually saw what war on their doorstep looks like? The civil war? America's real defense is the Pacific and Atlantic. The US military is a raiding force that's free to attack anywhere in the world without fear of retaliation because they know the American continent is geographically unassailable.
  - danans 7y ago
    > they know the American continent is geographically unassailable. And COVID19 is turning that assumption on its head. The only question that remains is whether the US can buttress what's left of its public health institutions to keep it at bay, and prepare for the next wave that comes, whether of this pandemic or the next one.
    - ethbro 7y ago