4 ms·

But browsers are severely sandboxed already. What the article is talking about is: > deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days whic

But browsers are severely sandboxed already. What the article is talking about is: > deleting all local storage (including Indexed DB, etc.) after 7 days which I can see how it might help privacy (since you could be tracked via local storage too) but also how it might break any potential web app that might need data to last more than 7 days. > If you want more access, make a native app But then, everybody will complain about yet another Electron app, right? Not to mention that you have to fork over $99 and go through the signing / notarization hoops that change from one week to the other. I think in the name of privacy and security only Apple and some select few corporations will be allowed to make software in the future. macOS / iOS and Windows 10 are evolutionary dead ends in many ways.

DagAgren 7y ago
They do not "change from one week to another". They have changed, what, twice ever?
- conroydave 7y ago
  and to be honest the process has gotten a lot easier.
- fierarul 7y ago
  Two counterpoints: * AdoptOpenJDK releases that were notarized some months ago are no longer accepted by Apple since they made the rules even more stringent. I had releases accepted by Apple that are not accepted today using the same AdoptOpenJDK binaries. * Apple's notarization rules are not global. There's whitelists for given companies/institutions/apps/files which means the same dylib might not have to be notarized by a bigger player but will have to be codesigned by you. The above happened to me in the span of less than 3 months I think? Indeed, the scripts I use per se to do the notarization are about the same as originally.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Do you have more details about this?
    - fierarul 7y ago
      I think I gave quite some details. Do you need the exact AdoptOpenJDK version (11.0.5+10 for macOS)? And I made a test about the non-global rules too (by trying to submit the same binary and getting rejected).
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        Apple may have stepped up notarization requirements, but I never heard them be inconsistent across developers. Are you sure you submitted the same binary? Nothing different about the signing or bundle layout?
        fierarul 7y ago
        Well, I would love to know how to change the bundle layout to have to sign less. My notes are here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/34472331 https://www.patreon.com/posts/34472331 You can take the same Apache-NetBeans-11.3-bin-macosx.dmg and see how you could submit it with your own key. I guess there may be different rules on a .pkg vs .app in a DMG but it seems silly since the user gets the same bits on disk.
janoc 7y ago
Native app != Electron app (fortunately!) The less of that bloated slow crap the better.
- vetinari 7y ago
  If we had to make non-electron, native version of our app, that would mean Windows[1] and Android, because that's where the current users are. Forget the rest. Is that the future you want? [1] And they would not be happy about that either. For many that would mean RDP or Citrix. They prefer webapp right now.
  - kkarakk 7y ago
    I think apple DOES want this. Core markets cleanly segmented are probably a better value prop to apple than everything working everywhere and users being able to freely migrate between platforms
  - Gorbzel 7y ago
    Sure, keep your (likely crummy if you’re OK with Citrix as a primary use case) Windows and Android apps. The market will decide. Your comment is just on the user-hostile side of assuming it will prefer your technology choices.
    - recursive 7y ago
      It would only be citrix if it was made a native app. It is presently a web app, presumably because it was determined to be a better choice. You proposed that it should be a native app. It would be the customers that would choose Citrix, but they'd probably prefer web apps (if they're anything like my customers). The deployment story is so much better for web apps, which is the main reason it seems to be so compelling for big enterprises.
george_perez 7y ago
7 days after Safari use without user interaction on the site.
fpoling 7y ago
Apple requires that all code-related assets for an app should be included into the app. So the app cannot just be a launcher that show a browser with a website.
- simplify 7y ago
  That doesn't seem to be completely true. Basecamp has a "hybrid" app, where they use native frames to load web pages for content https://twitter.com/dhh/status/940358921960677376 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/940358921960677376
kkarakk 7y ago
More likely that apple and the other corporations are also evolutionary dead end and this is a temporary hiccup

DagAgren 7y ago

They do not "change from one week to another". They have changed, what, twice ever?

conroydave 7y ago
and to be honest the process has gotten a lot easier.
fierarul 7y ago
Two counterpoints: * AdoptOpenJDK releases that were notarized some months ago are no longer accepted by Apple since they made the rules even more stringent. I had releases accepted by Apple that are not accepted today using the same AdoptOpenJDK binaries. * Apple's notarization rules are not global. There's whitelists for given companies/institutions/apps/files which means the same dylib might not have to be notarized by a bigger player but will have to be codesigned by you. The above happened to me in the span of less than 3 months I think? Indeed, the scripts I use per se to do the notarization are about the same as originally.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Do you have more details about this?
  - fierarul 7y ago
    I think I gave quite some details. Do you need the exact AdoptOpenJDK version (11.0.5+10 for macOS)? And I made a test about the non-global rules too (by trying to submit the same binary and getting rejected).
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      Apple may have stepped up notarization requirements, but I never heard them be inconsistent across developers. Are you sure you submitted the same binary? Nothing different about the signing or bundle layout?
      - fierarul 7y ago
        Well, I would love to know how to change the bundle layout to have to sign less. My notes are here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/34472331 https://www.patreon.com/posts/34472331 You can take the same Apache-NetBeans-11.3-bin-macosx.dmg and see how you could submit it with your own key. I guess there may be different rules on a .pkg vs .app in a DMG but it seems silly since the user gets the same bits on disk.

janoc 7y ago

Native app != Electron app (fortunately!) The less of that bloated slow crap the better.

vetinari 7y ago
If we had to make non-electron, native version of our app, that would mean Windows[1] and Android, because that's where the current users are. Forget the rest. Is that the future you want? [1] And they would not be happy about that either. For many that would mean RDP or Citrix. They prefer webapp right now.
- kkarakk 7y ago
  I think apple DOES want this. Core markets cleanly segmented are probably a better value prop to apple than everything working everywhere and users being able to freely migrate between platforms
- Gorbzel 7y ago
  Sure, keep your (likely crummy if you’re OK with Citrix as a primary use case) Windows and Android apps. The market will decide. Your comment is just on the user-hostile side of assuming it will prefer your technology choices.
  - recursive 7y ago
    It would only be citrix if it was made a native app. It is presently a web app, presumably because it was determined to be a better choice. You proposed that it should be a native app. It would be the customers that would choose Citrix, but they'd probably prefer web apps (if they're anything like my customers). The deployment story is so much better for web apps, which is the main reason it seems to be so compelling for big enterprises.

george_perez 7y ago

7 days after Safari use without user interaction on the site.

fpoling 7y ago

Apple requires that all code-related assets for an app should be included into the app. So the app cannot just be a launcher that show a browser with a website.

simplify 7y ago
That doesn't seem to be completely true. Basecamp has a "hybrid" app, where they use native frames to load web pages for content https://twitter.com/dhh/status/940358921960677376 https://twitter.com/dhh/status/940358921960677376

kkarakk 7y ago

More likely that apple and the other corporations are also evolutionary dead end and this is a temporary hiccup