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Evidently, it was his legal problems that provoked the job request and console ads, so I'm sympathetic. And based on the description above, it's highly unlikely

Evidently, it was his legal problems that provoked the job request and console ads, so I'm sympathetic. And based on the description above, it's highly unlikely that he would have been charged in most countries. The person who died was lying on the road at night, in dark clothes, intoxicated. Sympathy to her family, but that would count as an exculpating circumstance in most Western countries, I'm fairly sure. I sure as hell that I'd do whatever I could legally to avoid going to a Russian (or American) prison, if what I'd done was an accident and of very doubtful criminality from the perspective of most countries. Wouldn't you? Now he'll be stuck in a Russian prison for 2 years because of a tragic accident in which he was arguably not that negligent. Edit: All of this is based on the facts as I have been able to find them online. I may be wrong in my interpretation.

ivan_gammel 7y ago
I can read Russian. According to the information from the court: 1) he lost an appeal, meaning that his case was in the court at least two times. 2) the dead victim was not lying on the road, that’s false information. She was trying to remove other victim from the crosswalk. Knowing the motorcycle culture in Russia I would not be sympathetic to anyone there - it has nothing to do with safety on the road.
- jnbiche 7y ago
  Fair enough. That's why I wrote that disclaimer. If one victim was dragging the other, that changes my perception somewhat, although not entirely. And in terms of "culture", are there not people in Russia who just ride motorcycles as an inexpensive transportation option, and not as part of any particular culture or group? The guy in question looks like a typical geek, not a motorcycle gang member or something similar.
  - ivan_gammel 7y ago
    It’s definitely not considered as inexpensive transportation option. Not with Russian winter, roads and environment. Geeks though are the likely buyers, because riding a bike is a kind of a statement.
- robbrown451 7y ago
  Maybe the person lying on the street should shoulder some of the blame. I do think courts in other parts of the world would have seen a lot of mitigating factors.
  - ivan_gammel 7y ago
    I think that it’s better to stop victim-blaming. There’s no reason to assume that in this case justice failed. Russian courts aren’t perfect, but they are not worse than anywhere but few countries.
    - robbrown451 7y ago
      When you are sending someone to jail, you want to make sure of their degree of fault, don't you? The person lying on the ground wasn't killed. The woman trying to drag him out of the road was. She was presumably innocent. (although she may have played a role as well, I understand she was intoxicated too, but in the moment she was trying to help her friend to safety) Regardless, who suffered is a completely separate issue from who is responsible. Do you really want to distort the process of determining who is responsible, out of fear of "victim blaming"? It could have happened ever-so-slightly differently, and it might have been the motorcyclist who was killed. Does that automatically shift responsibility?
      - ivan_gammel 7y ago
        I don’t get your argument. Two courts already decided who is guilty, there’s no process to distort unless you consider this thread a retrial. What happens here is that despite court decisions people still try to prove something and shift responsibility to victims of the incident. This is victim blaming by definition and it is pointless, because justice already decided on this case.
        robbrown451 7y ago
        "This is victim blaming by definition and it is pointless, because justice already decided on this case." Well, you're mixing issues. Those are two completely separate arguments. 1) victim blaming, and 2) it's already been tried On point 2. I don't necessarily agree that once a court has tried something, it is automatically correct and shouldn't be discussed. I'm not a lawyer, but I spent a full week in trial in San Francisco, against corrupt lawyers, representing myself, and was one of the very few that prevailed in such a situation. I have seen some awful stuff, so no, I don't trust the legal system to always produce correct results, even here. Regardless, that wasn't my point. For people such as yourself being so quick to cry "victim blaming" is a very good indication to me that bias in such situations is common. Again, why should you assume that because one person was harmed that the other person was responsible? Surely you recognize that there can be a clearcut cases where the victim (i.e. the one harmed or killed) was the one who caused the accident? Right? And again, the real "victim" (the woman killed) isn't the one I am suggesting might be partially to blame.

ivan_gammel 7y ago

I can read Russian. According to the information from the court: 1) he lost an appeal, meaning that his case was in the court at least two times. 2) the dead victim was not lying on the road, that’s false information. She was trying to remove other victim from the crosswalk. Knowing the motorcycle culture in Russia I would not be sympathetic to anyone there - it has nothing to do with safety on the road.

jnbiche 7y ago
Fair enough. That's why I wrote that disclaimer. If one victim was dragging the other, that changes my perception somewhat, although not entirely. And in terms of "culture", are there not people in Russia who just ride motorcycles as an inexpensive transportation option, and not as part of any particular culture or group? The guy in question looks like a typical geek, not a motorcycle gang member or something similar.
- ivan_gammel 7y ago
  It’s definitely not considered as inexpensive transportation option. Not with Russian winter, roads and environment. Geeks though are the likely buyers, because riding a bike is a kind of a statement.
robbrown451 7y ago
Maybe the person lying on the street should shoulder some of the blame. I do think courts in other parts of the world would have seen a lot of mitigating factors.
- ivan_gammel 7y ago
  I think that it’s better to stop victim-blaming. There’s no reason to assume that in this case justice failed. Russian courts aren’t perfect, but they are not worse than anywhere but few countries.
  - robbrown451 7y ago
    When you are sending someone to jail, you want to make sure of their degree of fault, don't you? The person lying on the ground wasn't killed. The woman trying to drag him out of the road was. She was presumably innocent. (although she may have played a role as well, I understand she was intoxicated too, but in the moment she was trying to help her friend to safety) Regardless, who suffered is a completely separate issue from who is responsible. Do you really want to distort the process of determining who is responsible, out of fear of "victim blaming"? It could have happened ever-so-slightly differently, and it might have been the motorcyclist who was killed. Does that automatically shift responsibility?
    - ivan_gammel 7y ago
      I don’t get your argument. Two courts already decided who is guilty, there’s no process to distort unless you consider this thread a retrial. What happens here is that despite court decisions people still try to prove something and shift responsibility to victims of the incident. This is victim blaming by definition and it is pointless, because justice already decided on this case.
      - robbrown451 7y ago
        "This is victim blaming by definition and it is pointless, because justice already decided on this case." Well, you're mixing issues. Those are two completely separate arguments. 1) victim blaming, and 2) it's already been tried On point 2. I don't necessarily agree that once a court has tried something, it is automatically correct and shouldn't be discussed. I'm not a lawyer, but I spent a full week in trial in San Francisco, against corrupt lawyers, representing myself, and was one of the very few that prevailed in such a situation. I have seen some awful stuff, so no, I don't trust the legal system to always produce correct results, even here. Regardless, that wasn't my point. For people such as yourself being so quick to cry "victim blaming" is a very good indication to me that bias in such situations is common. Again, why should you assume that because one person was harmed that the other person was responsible? Surely you recognize that there can be a clearcut cases where the victim (i.e. the one harmed or killed) was the one who caused the accident? Right? And again, the real "victim" (the woman killed) isn't the one I am suggesting might be partially to blame.