4 ms·

I think the benchmark should be distribution. For instance, you mention "JavaScript and Python obviously don't have any problem", but say you want to create a d

I think the benchmark should be distribution. For instance, you mention "JavaScript and Python obviously don't have any problem", but say you want to create a distributable program for the 3 major operating systems, based in one of those languages, and you can't assume the user will have an installed interpreter. I don't think you will find any _standard_ solutions. Most other languages make it _possible_ to generate some sort of artifact usable from different operating systems but not necessarily easy. I think Java only relatively recently included a standard way to create a bundle including a minimal JVM distribution with an app to make it usable when the user doesn't have an installed JVM (and again, there were a bunch of different non standard solutions of varying quality before that). Even now I wouldn't say the Java solution is easy to use. I could continue in this fashion with different languages, but you get the idea. I heard go is pretty good in ease of cross compilation, and well, looks like Zig is doing great in this area too. Ah! .net core is apparently pretty good in this area these days too.

david_draco 7y ago
> I think the benchmark should be distribution. For instance, you mention "JavaScript and Python obviously don't have any problem", but say you want to create a distributable program for the 3 major operating systems, based in one of those languages, and you can't assume the user will have an installed interpreter. I don't think you will find any _standard_ solutions. Well, there are web browsers and servers. They distribute javascript programs and run them.
Hello71 7y ago
That's moving the bar though. Only in the past decade or so has it become reasonable ("reasonable") to include entire runtimes together with an application. Java started in 1995, Python started in 1991. This was an era when one of Java's main targets was SIM cards and other highly minimal devices, so not only would the target already have a JVM, but it would be wholly impractical to ship your own. Even on desktops, downloading just a fraction of Java for each program would be a massive waste of limited bandwidth and disk space. For that reason, Java and Python didn't start out with fully self-contained bundles as a design goal. It just wasn't practical in the 90s. Obviously, yes, if they had managed to correctly predict and plan for three decades of technological improvement, then sure, we'd be working in a very different technological landscape. But they couldn't possibly have, and solutions built on the old languages are always fraught with disagreement. So, we use new languages, like Go and Rust, which are developed with modern needs in mind.

david_draco 7y ago

> I think the benchmark should be distribution. For instance, you mention "JavaScript and Python obviously don't have any problem", but say you want to create a distributable program for the 3 major operating systems, based in one of those languages, and you can't assume the user will have an installed interpreter. I don't think you will find any _standard_ solutions. Well, there are web browsers and servers. They distribute javascript programs and run them.

Hello71 7y ago

That's moving the bar though. Only in the past decade or so has it become reasonable ("reasonable") to include entire runtimes together with an application. Java started in 1995, Python started in 1991. This was an era when one of Java's main targets was SIM cards and other highly minimal devices, so not only would the target already have a JVM, but it would be wholly impractical to ship your own. Even on desktops, downloading just a fraction of Java for each program would be a massive waste of limited bandwidth and disk space. For that reason, Java and Python didn't start out with fully self-contained bundles as a design goal. It just wasn't practical in the 90s. Obviously, yes, if they had managed to correctly predict and plan for three decades of technological improvement, then sure, we'd be working in a very different technological landscape. But they couldn't possibly have, and solutions built on the old languages are always fraught with disagreement. So, we use new languages, like Go and Rust, which are developed with modern needs in mind.