6 ms·

> "Keep paying rent if you can pay rent." How in the hell is anyone going to know if retailers or people can actually afford to pay rent?

henrikschroder 7y ago
You ask them. If they say no, then they can't pay rent. "OMG everyone is going to totally take advantage of this!" Not everyone, but yes, plenty of people and business will. "OMG that's unfair." Yes, I acknowledged that from the start. The whole point of my argument is that this might still be preferable to the alternative, it might still be better than sticking to what's 100% fair, because collectively we might emerge stronger from this crisis if struggling businesses are afforded leniency, while the rest of us keep paying our bills on time. But thank you for perfectly illustrating my sidenote on how this way of thinking is completely alien to many Americans.
- donclark 7y ago
  What is this? Another one of your multi-player games?
- bawolff 7y ago
  Ok. Im a (small) landlord. None of my tennants claim to be able to pay rent. How am I buying groceries this month?
  - pinkfoot 7y ago
    I cannot speak for others, but we played open cards - showed each other our company and family finances. We have come to a compromise that keeps both parties fed.
  - samsonradu 7y ago
    I don't mean to be rude but relying on collecting month-by-month rent from your tenantS to buy your groceries seems like poor financial management. You've bought an asset which is not returning as expected for the time being, but has for the past n years. What do you expect now, a bailout?
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      not all landlords are rich and/or have rent as their entire income in normal times. my friend is a "landlord", in the sense that she rents out the spare room in her house to help pay the mortgage. now her entire industry is shut down and her tenant isn't getting paid either. no matter how responsibly they manage their finances, most people can't handle suddenly having multiple sources of cashflow go to zero.
      - samsonradu 7y ago
        They can always sell their property and rent for a while to weather the storm. Relative to the tenant, at least they have something to sell.
        bawolff 7y ago
        Ah yes, because there are so many people in the market to buy rental properties in a giant economic downturn. Nevermind the reason you are selling is because its impossible to rent out.
        samsonradu 7y ago
        I'm sure a buyer can be found at the right price, it's called supply and demand. We wanted a free market for housing and ended up with EUR 500k studios in Paris. Can't people wrap their minds around the fact that house prices also go down?
  - true_religion 7y ago
    Same way that your tenants who cannot work will buy groceries. Either private charity, savings, or government intervention would have to cover the income gap to keep people alive in this time of crisis.
    - bawolff 7y ago
      I think that fundamentally what I'm trying to criticize, is the original proposal shifted all the burden from one class of people to another class. And then assumed that the problem just goes away, without having to do anything expensive like the government providing emergency funding. But its not that simple - its not like debt holders can neccesarily just take the hit. They have things they need money for. They have people they employ who need to get paid. Sure, there is a certain amount of a hit that can be taken - but ultimately money has to come from somewhere or your just shifting which class of people are totally screwed by this, which doesnt solve anything.
  - lifeformed 7y ago
    Is it better if you can't buy groceries or if multiple tenants can't buy groceries? I bet if you and your tenants got together, you could acquire enough food for all of you.
  - op00to 7y ago
    Are you seriously a landlord with no cash reserves? What happens if you have an unexpected repair at your property? You’d buy groceries with your emergency fund. As a self employed person it is your responsibility to do this for yourself.
    - bawolff 7y ago
      To be clear, i'm a hypothetical landlord. Not actually a landlord. > You’d buy groceries with your emergency fund. As a self employed person it is your responsibility to do this for yourself. Its everyone's responsibility to have an emergency fund. Why is the answer that the landlord should rely on his/her fund instead of the tennant relying on their fund to pay rent?
6510 7y ago
They will call the bluff and stop paying. Mass evictions probably wont be tolerated.
- WWLink 7y ago
  Having acted as a landlord before, and having rented before, the only thing either party can really do is ask nicely and hope for the best. On either side of the table, I'd hope for the fastest return to an ideal situation. Luckily my company is doing fine, and I can work from home, so my income is still stable. Hopefully that makes it easier for the guy I'm paying rent to, to be easier on his other tenants that can't afford to pay. It's one of those "I might need it myself someday" kinda things.

henrikschroder 7y ago

You ask them. If they say no, then they can't pay rent. "OMG everyone is going to totally take advantage of this!" Not everyone, but yes, plenty of people and business will. "OMG that's unfair." Yes, I acknowledged that from the start. The whole point of my argument is that this might still be preferable to the alternative, it might still be better than sticking to what's 100% fair, because collectively we might emerge stronger from this crisis if struggling businesses are afforded leniency, while the rest of us keep paying our bills on time. But thank you for perfectly illustrating my sidenote on how this way of thinking is completely alien to many Americans.

donclark 7y ago
What is this? Another one of your multi-player games?
bawolff 7y ago
Ok. Im a (small) landlord. None of my tennants claim to be able to pay rent. How am I buying groceries this month?
- pinkfoot 7y ago
  I cannot speak for others, but we played open cards - showed each other our company and family finances. We have come to a compromise that keeps both parties fed.
- samsonradu 7y ago
  I don't mean to be rude but relying on collecting month-by-month rent from your tenantS to buy your groceries seems like poor financial management. You've bought an asset which is not returning as expected for the time being, but has for the past n years. What do you expect now, a bailout?
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    not all landlords are rich and/or have rent as their entire income in normal times. my friend is a "landlord", in the sense that she rents out the spare room in her house to help pay the mortgage. now her entire industry is shut down and her tenant isn't getting paid either. no matter how responsibly they manage their finances, most people can't handle suddenly having multiple sources of cashflow go to zero.
    - samsonradu 7y ago
      They can always sell their property and rent for a while to weather the storm. Relative to the tenant, at least they have something to sell.
      - bawolff 7y ago
        Ah yes, because there are so many people in the market to buy rental properties in a giant economic downturn. Nevermind the reason you are selling is because its impossible to rent out.
        samsonradu 7y ago
        I'm sure a buyer can be found at the right price, it's called supply and demand. We wanted a free market for housing and ended up with EUR 500k studios in Paris. Can't people wrap their minds around the fact that house prices also go down?
- true_religion 7y ago
  Same way that your tenants who cannot work will buy groceries. Either private charity, savings, or government intervention would have to cover the income gap to keep people alive in this time of crisis.
  - bawolff 7y ago
    I think that fundamentally what I'm trying to criticize, is the original proposal shifted all the burden from one class of people to another class. And then assumed that the problem just goes away, without having to do anything expensive like the government providing emergency funding. But its not that simple - its not like debt holders can neccesarily just take the hit. They have things they need money for. They have people they employ who need to get paid. Sure, there is a certain amount of a hit that can be taken - but ultimately money has to come from somewhere or your just shifting which class of people are totally screwed by this, which doesnt solve anything.
- lifeformed 7y ago
  Is it better if you can't buy groceries or if multiple tenants can't buy groceries? I bet if you and your tenants got together, you could acquire enough food for all of you.
- op00to 7y ago
  Are you seriously a landlord with no cash reserves? What happens if you have an unexpected repair at your property? You’d buy groceries with your emergency fund. As a self employed person it is your responsibility to do this for yourself.
  - bawolff 7y ago
    To be clear, i'm a hypothetical landlord. Not actually a landlord. > You’d buy groceries with your emergency fund. As a self employed person it is your responsibility to do this for yourself. Its everyone's responsibility to have an emergency fund. Why is the answer that the landlord should rely on his/her fund instead of the tennant relying on their fund to pay rent?

6510 7y ago

They will call the bluff and stop paying. Mass evictions probably wont be tolerated.

WWLink 7y ago
Having acted as a landlord before, and having rented before, the only thing either party can really do is ask nicely and hope for the best. On either side of the table, I'd hope for the fastest return to an ideal situation. Luckily my company is doing fine, and I can work from home, so my income is still stable. Hopefully that makes it easier for the guy I'm paying rent to, to be easier on his other tenants that can't afford to pay. It's one of those "I might need it myself someday" kinda things.