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As a recent convert to redux who ended up recreating it from first principals but in a much much clunkier way, I highly recommend anyone writing a UI in 2020 to

As a recent convert to redux who ended up recreating it from first principals but in a much much clunkier way, I highly recommend anyone writing a UI in 2020 to have a damn good reason to not use react and redux. It's so well designed today. Well worth the time to learn.

dahfizz 7y ago
> anyone writing a UI in 2020 to have a damn good reason to not use react and redux. Avoiding JavaScript is all the reason anyone needs. UI =\= website
- hombre_fatal 7y ago
  The most charitable interpretation of their point is any UI where you were going to use Javascript heavily anyways which is what Redux+Redux competes with. To take your point to absurdity, you could also just say "nope, write a native client instead."
  - bryanrasmussen 7y ago
    I thought the point to absurdity was what they mean by UI =\= website? on edit: =\= is the prolog version of !=, I guess they didn't want to use != in case anyone thought they used JavaScript in real life.
  - dahfizz 7y ago
    What is absurd about native programs? I think trying to turn a web browser into an OS is absurd.
    - stnmtn 7y ago
      It's orders of magnitude harder to get users to download a program than it is to just give them a link and have everything right there, no?
      - chadcmulligan 7y ago
        Its a trade off though - its orders of magnitude harder to develop a web browser app, and they are slower, and there are limits to what you can do. So yes the link is easier but its a trade off, so just saying you can just send a link glosses over a lot of decisions, you can just send a link to something on an App Store to, and the power difference in the apps is significant and really how hard is it to install something from an App Store
      - dahfizz 7y ago
        Sure, if the only metric you care about is "how easy is it to try out my project" then making a website makes sense. That's a very single-dimensional decision making progress. You're nowhere near convincing that all UIs must be made with a website. Even if we restrict our view to UIs made for businesses for the purpose of making a profit, native apps make a lot of sense. Just think of any big tech company; they all have robust apps and consumers largely prefer the apps. You can order door dash or an Uber in a web browser, but people almost always use the app because a good native app is a better experience than a good website app.
    - hombre_fatal 7y ago
      My point is that web applications have their place. The absurdity is the dismissal of Javascript in a conversation about building web applications with Javascript.
- chadcmulligan 7y ago
  indeed the default assumption on hacker news is web site, I feel saddened that so much developer time is spent on getting round the limitations of browsers. There are so many constraints on UI in a browser that any discussion seems moot.
Cthulhu_ 7y ago
From my experience a few years ago, Redux adds a lot of indirection to your application without adding much value. My last project was 'pure' React, and we didn't miss Redux because React now supported contexts to share state throughout the application. Mind you for my current application I may still go for Redux, it's going to be very large with possibly a lot of interdependent components and form fields. We'll see.
yakshaving_jgt 7y ago
The existence of Elm is a damn good reason not to use React and Redux.

dahfizz 7y ago

> anyone writing a UI in 2020 to have a damn good reason to not use react and redux. Avoiding JavaScript is all the reason anyone needs. UI =\= website

hombre_fatal 7y ago
The most charitable interpretation of their point is any UI where you were going to use Javascript heavily anyways which is what Redux+Redux competes with. To take your point to absurdity, you could also just say "nope, write a native client instead."
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  I thought the point to absurdity was what they mean by UI =\= website? on edit: =\= is the prolog version of !=, I guess they didn't want to use != in case anyone thought they used JavaScript in real life.
- dahfizz 7y ago
  What is absurd about native programs? I think trying to turn a web browser into an OS is absurd.
  - stnmtn 7y ago
    It's orders of magnitude harder to get users to download a program than it is to just give them a link and have everything right there, no?
    - chadcmulligan 7y ago
      Its a trade off though - its orders of magnitude harder to develop a web browser app, and they are slower, and there are limits to what you can do. So yes the link is easier but its a trade off, so just saying you can just send a link glosses over a lot of decisions, you can just send a link to something on an App Store to, and the power difference in the apps is significant and really how hard is it to install something from an App Store
    - dahfizz 7y ago
      Sure, if the only metric you care about is "how easy is it to try out my project" then making a website makes sense. That's a very single-dimensional decision making progress. You're nowhere near convincing that all UIs must be made with a website. Even if we restrict our view to UIs made for businesses for the purpose of making a profit, native apps make a lot of sense. Just think of any big tech company; they all have robust apps and consumers largely prefer the apps. You can order door dash or an Uber in a web browser, but people almost always use the app because a good native app is a better experience than a good website app.
  - hombre_fatal 7y ago
    My point is that web applications have their place. The absurdity is the dismissal of Javascript in a conversation about building web applications with Javascript.
chadcmulligan 7y ago
indeed the default assumption on hacker news is web site, I feel saddened that so much developer time is spent on getting round the limitations of browsers. There are so many constraints on UI in a browser that any discussion seems moot.

Cthulhu_ 7y ago

From my experience a few years ago, Redux adds a lot of indirection to your application without adding much value. My last project was 'pure' React, and we didn't miss Redux because React now supported contexts to share state throughout the application. Mind you for my current application I may still go for Redux, it's going to be very large with possibly a lot of interdependent components and form fields. We'll see.

yakshaving_jgt 7y ago

The existence of Elm is a damn good reason not to use React and Redux.