7 ms·

I don't understand this mentality when other Western Nations are going through the exact same thing. Did the administration cause every other countries problem

I don't understand this mentality when other Western Nations are going through the exact same thing. Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too?

ruytlm 7y ago
In some regards, I'd argue yes; from my perspective, many western democracies have been following the US down its path to post-truth politics for years, as other countries' politicians have seen how effective the strategy of simply denying or ignoring anything you don't like is, and sought to replicate the success that (particularly) the Republican party has had in driving voters deeper into their partisan blocs.
- nocorpwelfare 7y ago
  Saying that only Republicans do this is ridiculous. The Democrats are masters of identity politics, which was totally unproductive in all aspects by design. Handouts and freebies to buy votes and appeal to the most basest desires while ignoring all personal responsibility. Using mass illegal immigration to influence elections. Using outright voting fraud to influence elections. All in a total effort to cement power--it's all about the power, not what they will do with it once they have it. Which, news flash, isn't going to be good for the productive citizens of the US.
rjvs 7y ago
Similar mistakes were made by seemingly every country that hadn’t dealt with a SARS virus before. This might be partially explained by the leadership position the US has traditionally enjoyed on the world stage.
jeromegv 7y ago
Based on the current growth of cases, it looks like the situation in the US will be way worse than other western nations. Even when you adjust for population size.
- notJim 7y ago
  Is this true? I thought the hot spots in the US locked down earlier (in terms of case counts/deaths) than other countries. But I haven't looked into it very much.
  - kweinber 7y ago
    It only feels like the US locked down earlier because we were under the false impression that we got the virus later than Europe. Indeed we probably got the virus at the same time as European countries but had no idea because we didn’t test....that’s why we have more cases than any other nation except Italy and China (and soon will have more than Italy).
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
sd8f9iu 7y ago
The US has been far behind other Western countries in testing: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronavirus-testing-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronaviru... The per-capita chart is most notable. Other Western countries' responses haven't been stellar either, but the US's is particularly flawed.
- humpty_drumpfty 7y ago
  For more up to date data see https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/ https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/
- Lldjjxnn 7y ago
  The FDA had test kits which were flawed. It got caught with its pants down in public. The rest is damage control.
- lurquer 7y ago
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ US is 21st in per capita deaths (and falling... that is, it was 18th a couple days ago.) Spin all you want about testing and the like. But, the fact remains that the US's medical system is doing a better job than the other western countries. Its striking that Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Switzerland, France, Belgium, UK, Sweden, Denmark, and Austria have more per capita covid deaths than the US. (Looks like Germany is about to be added to that list.) I do not see how any rational and objective analysis could characterize the US's response as 'particularly flawed'.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - sd8f9iu 7y ago
    There is no sense in comparing per-capita deaths this early in the pandemic, especially when the spread of the virus in the US trails a few weeks behind that in Europe. Talk to me in a few months. Furthermore, per-capita figures are meaningless when comparing areas of substantially different population size and density (e.g. Austria, Switzerland) to the US. _I_ do not see how a "rational and objective analysis" like yours can ignore these basic mitigating factors when making such comparisons.
danmaz74 7y ago
The US was weeks behind Italy in the initial spread of the virus. If the Chinese example wasn't enough to learn, at least what was happening in Italy should have been.
- corpMaverick 7y ago
  At least for me and many other people, I suppose, when I saw what happened to Italy is when I saw what was going to happen here. It has been painful. It is like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion, and you are in front of the train.
belltaco 7y ago
Whatever happened to American exceptionalism? >Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too The American people did not elect and pay other countries to take care of them, they did for their government. The administration dismantled the pandemic team from the highest levels and along with their media cronies, actively minimized it for several weeks[1][2] and made it political, which is costing lives now. The other countries did not do that to Americans. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=youtu.be&t=17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=youtu.be... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus...
- someguydave 7y ago
  When you use the word “administration” are you thinking about a few hundred elected and directly appointed officials or the hundreds of thousands of government employees? Because it seems like the employees bungled the job.
  - mentalpiracy 7y ago
    Not for nothing, but we are 3 years into an administration that has done everything it could to push out career employees with lifetimes of expertise. There have been failures from the top to the bottom. But let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a systematic, intentional degradation of these agencies that has only served to exacerbate those failures.
    - someguydave 7y ago
      I voted for the guy specifically because the agencies were rotten and the civil service needs deep reform. I’m very disappointed that the law has not need changed to so that more government employees can be immediately fired.
    - nocorpwelfare 7y ago
      The US is extremely top heavy with government workers, most of whom weren't doing much of anything. There are other considerations here, you can't just have it all. "Career employees with lifetime experience?" You have to be kidding me, most government employees are not very productive. Also, you're sitting here complaining while your way of life is going down the toilet. We need to be looking at how to move forwards. What's done is done.
gt565k 7y ago
No, but it offers a stark comparison of the actions taken by "leader" of the "free world" vs countries like South Korea and Taiwan who managed to control the outbreak. The United States is supposed to be the most prepared country to deal with a pandemic like this, yet the administration failed at its duty to protect its citizens and economy, even with ample warning from the world's best medical experts and intelligence agencies. If America is struggling to contain this, how are impoverished countries supposed to?
- BeetleB 7y ago
  > The United States is supposed to be the most prepared country to deal with a pandemic like this Based on what? For years - long before the current administration - health experts in the US have been talking about how unprepared the US is for a pandemic. So where did you get this idea?
Benmcdonald__ 7y ago
Yes the western countries failed spectacularly. Even tho they had Asian counties as examples. There are no excuses

I don't understand this mentality when other Western Nations are going through the exact same thing. Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too?

ruytlm 7y ago

In some regards, I'd argue yes; from my perspective, many western democracies have been following the US down its path to post-truth politics for years, as other countries' politicians have seen how effective the strategy of simply denying or ignoring anything you don't like is, and sought to replicate the success that (particularly) the Republican party has had in driving voters deeper into their partisan blocs.

nocorpwelfare 7y ago
Saying that only Republicans do this is ridiculous. The Democrats are masters of identity politics, which was totally unproductive in all aspects by design. Handouts and freebies to buy votes and appeal to the most basest desires while ignoring all personal responsibility. Using mass illegal immigration to influence elections. Using outright voting fraud to influence elections. All in a total effort to cement power--it's all about the power, not what they will do with it once they have it. Which, news flash, isn't going to be good for the productive citizens of the US.

rjvs 7y ago

Similar mistakes were made by seemingly every country that hadn’t dealt with a SARS virus before. This might be partially explained by the leadership position the US has traditionally enjoyed on the world stage.

jeromegv 7y ago

Based on the current growth of cases, it looks like the situation in the US will be way worse than other western nations. Even when you adjust for population size.

notJim 7y ago
Is this true? I thought the hot spots in the US locked down earlier (in terms of case counts/deaths) than other countries. But I haven't looked into it very much.
- kweinber 7y ago
  It only feels like the US locked down earlier because we were under the false impression that we got the virus later than Europe. Indeed we probably got the virus at the same time as European countries but had no idea because we didn’t test....that’s why we have more cases than any other nation except Italy and China (and soon will have more than Italy).

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

sd8f9iu 7y ago

The US has been far behind other Western countries in testing: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronavirus-testing-data.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/17/us/coronaviru... The per-capita chart is most notable. Other Western countries' responses haven't been stellar either, but the US's is particularly flawed.

humpty_drumpfty 7y ago
For more up to date data see https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/ https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/
Lldjjxnn 7y ago
The FDA had test kits which were flawed. It got caught with its pants down in public. The rest is damage control.
lurquer 7y ago
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ US is 21st in per capita deaths (and falling... that is, it was 18th a couple days ago.) Spin all you want about testing and the like. But, the fact remains that the US's medical system is doing a better job than the other western countries. Its striking that Italy, Spain, Netherlands, Switzerland, France, Belgium, UK, Sweden, Denmark, and Austria have more per capita covid deaths than the US. (Looks like Germany is about to be added to that list.) I do not see how any rational and objective analysis could characterize the US's response as 'particularly flawed'.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- sd8f9iu 7y ago
  There is no sense in comparing per-capita deaths this early in the pandemic, especially when the spread of the virus in the US trails a few weeks behind that in Europe. Talk to me in a few months. Furthermore, per-capita figures are meaningless when comparing areas of substantially different population size and density (e.g. Austria, Switzerland) to the US. _I_ do not see how a "rational and objective analysis" like yours can ignore these basic mitigating factors when making such comparisons.

danmaz74 7y ago

The US was weeks behind Italy in the initial spread of the virus. If the Chinese example wasn't enough to learn, at least what was happening in Italy should have been.

corpMaverick 7y ago
At least for me and many other people, I suppose, when I saw what happened to Italy is when I saw what was going to happen here. It has been painful. It is like watching a train wreck happening in slow motion, and you are in front of the train.

belltaco 7y ago

Whatever happened to American exceptionalism? >Did the administration cause every other countries problems with containing the virus too The American people did not elect and pay other countries to take care of them, they did for their government. The administration dismantled the pandemic team from the highest levels and along with their media cronies, actively minimized it for several weeks[1][2] and made it political, which is costing lives now. The other countries did not do that to Americans. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=youtu.be&t=17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifKbwDf51bA&feature=youtu.be... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/opinion/trump-coronavirus...

someguydave 7y ago
When you use the word “administration” are you thinking about a few hundred elected and directly appointed officials or the hundreds of thousands of government employees? Because it seems like the employees bungled the job.
- mentalpiracy 7y ago
  Not for nothing, but we are 3 years into an administration that has done everything it could to push out career employees with lifetimes of expertise. There have been failures from the top to the bottom. But let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a systematic, intentional degradation of these agencies that has only served to exacerbate those failures.
  - someguydave 7y ago
    I voted for the guy specifically because the agencies were rotten and the civil service needs deep reform. I’m very disappointed that the law has not need changed to so that more government employees can be immediately fired.
  - nocorpwelfare 7y ago
    The US is extremely top heavy with government workers, most of whom weren't doing much of anything. There are other considerations here, you can't just have it all. "Career employees with lifetime experience?" You have to be kidding me, most government employees are not very productive. Also, you're sitting here complaining while your way of life is going down the toilet. We need to be looking at how to move forwards. What's done is done.

gt565k 7y ago

No, but it offers a stark comparison of the actions taken by "leader" of the "free world" vs countries like South Korea and Taiwan who managed to control the outbreak. The United States is supposed to be the most prepared country to deal with a pandemic like this, yet the administration failed at its duty to protect its citizens and economy, even with ample warning from the world's best medical experts and intelligence agencies. If America is struggling to contain this, how are impoverished countries supposed to?

BeetleB 7y ago
> The United States is supposed to be the most prepared country to deal with a pandemic like this Based on what? For years - long before the current administration - health experts in the US have been talking about how unprepared the US is for a pandemic. So where did you get this idea?

Benmcdonald__ 7y ago

Yes the western countries failed spectacularly. Even tho they had Asian counties as examples. There are no excuses