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I just don't see what good is going to come out of worrying about this right now while the world is on fire. Everybody needs to be thinking about how to help in

I just don't see what good is going to come out of worrying about this right now while the world is on fire. Everybody needs to be thinking about how to help in the coming weeks, anything else is a waste of time and mental energy. There will be plenty of time to analyze what went wrong with the initial response when things calm down. This is just raising the level of angst unnecessarily in my opinion.

jude- 7y ago
If you want to come out of a lock-down without also causing the number of cases to spike again, we'll need to implement a widespread test-and-trace protocol similar to South Korea's. This requires _lots and lots_ of testing.
- mbreese 7y ago
  If you want to come out of lock-down, you really need a different test... you need a serological antibody test to tell if you've been exposed to the novel coronavirus (and thus have immunity from re-infection [0]). The current test can only tell you if you have an active infection. But before we can really open things up again, we'll need to know who is still at risk, and that requires the antibody test. There has been good progress in getting these tests to work, but it's not quite ready for prime-time. And it will still be quite a while before we have a vaccine which is the ultimate goal. [0] (assuming you can't be re-infected)
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    I mean, you're not wrong, if we can test for anti-bodies we can get a better handle on this whole thing in 3 months, especially given the reportedly high occurrence of mild or asymptomatic individuals. That'll give a sense of where we are in total. But no way are we waiting for herd immunity before the restrictions start to loosen. We very much still need to be able to test for people that currently have it - we're kind of starting from zero every time people come out of lock-down, so we need to test for outbreaks before they happen.
- munk-a 7y ago
  It also requires population participation in testing and that requires making the tests accessible including providing them for free or cheap[1] and without judgement[2]. 1. This is currently not the case, Payers have widely agreed not to charge co-pays for tests, but deductibles may still apply and the uninsured will pay the full cost. 2. Hey Trump Administration - you know how you've eroded all the trust and faith of the immigrant community? Yea, that's not so great suddenly (I mean it wasn't great before, but now it'll effect you!). Even legal immigrants have expressed concerns over the census, the chances they'll go to a testing site where there will be LEOs (police certainly, maybe national guard) are slim to none.
- jopsen 7y ago
  It's not entirely clear that some politicians aren't contemplating ending the lockdown and accepting the casualties. It seems crazy when you run the numbers.
shaggyfrog 7y ago
This comment is heavily biased towards a US-centric worldview. Different parts of the world are burning, or burning out, at different rates... so it’s not so much about “worrying about this right now” but “what lessons can one part of the globe learn from another that is a few days/weeks/months ahead”
- wool_gather 7y ago
  The article is by a U.S. institute about a problem that only affects the U.S. There's nothing for the rest of the world to learn...they already did it right by using the WHO test.
  - Retric 7y ago
    Several countries are in similar situations. For example Iceland‘s recent order for more tests got scaled back to 2,000 from 5,000. But unlike the US their acting like the situation is worse than it appears to be to try and limit spread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Iceland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_I...
    - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
      Most of the EU countries only test the very sick or dead. Americans tend tu spend too much time on arguing each other, it's too late to get it under control like that anyway.
malandrew 7y ago
In any post mortem, it's dreadfully important to capture information while everything is fresh. People writing articles like this now are capturing valuable information that will inform any thorough post-mortem performed later. The absolutely most useful post-mortems I've dealt with were ones where information wasn't gathered immediately. An outage that occurs on a Friday night is an example of one that will be low fidelity and less actionable. By Monday morning, everyone involved forgets many important details and the proper order of events necessary to get an accurate picture of what happened.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
watwut 7y ago
The good is that next week when same issue will be about to happen, people able to push back will be in better position to push back and there will be more pressure on them to push back. What happened once will happen again.
robocat 7y ago
Why not when you have time to spare? I personally am trying to spread good information, and push back on misinformation as my part to help, but I feel I am seriously losing that battle at present. Part of fixing “world on fire” is fixing your mistakes. And honestly, just because the US is on fire (due to lack of effective planning and mitigation), doesn’t mean Japan or other first world countries are on fire.
- raphlinus 7y ago
  I'm also trying my best to push back on misinformation, but not feeling like I'm having much positive effect. It feels like there's just a flood of it.

jude- 7y ago

If you want to come out of a lock-down without also causing the number of cases to spike again, we'll need to implement a widespread test-and-trace protocol similar to South Korea's. This requires _lots and lots_ of testing.

mbreese 7y ago
If you want to come out of lock-down, you really need a different test... you need a serological antibody test to tell if you've been exposed to the novel coronavirus (and thus have immunity from re-infection [0]). The current test can only tell you if you have an active infection. But before we can really open things up again, we'll need to know who is still at risk, and that requires the antibody test. There has been good progress in getting these tests to work, but it's not quite ready for prime-time. And it will still be quite a while before we have a vaccine which is the ultimate goal. [0] (assuming you can't be re-infected)
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  I mean, you're not wrong, if we can test for anti-bodies we can get a better handle on this whole thing in 3 months, especially given the reportedly high occurrence of mild or asymptomatic individuals. That'll give a sense of where we are in total. But no way are we waiting for herd immunity before the restrictions start to loosen. We very much still need to be able to test for people that currently have it - we're kind of starting from zero every time people come out of lock-down, so we need to test for outbreaks before they happen.
munk-a 7y ago
It also requires population participation in testing and that requires making the tests accessible including providing them for free or cheap[1] and without judgement[2]. 1. This is currently not the case, Payers have widely agreed not to charge co-pays for tests, but deductibles may still apply and the uninsured will pay the full cost. 2. Hey Trump Administration - you know how you've eroded all the trust and faith of the immigrant community? Yea, that's not so great suddenly (I mean it wasn't great before, but now it'll effect you!). Even legal immigrants have expressed concerns over the census, the chances they'll go to a testing site where there will be LEOs (police certainly, maybe national guard) are slim to none.
jopsen 7y ago
It's not entirely clear that some politicians aren't contemplating ending the lockdown and accepting the casualties. It seems crazy when you run the numbers.

shaggyfrog 7y ago

This comment is heavily biased towards a US-centric worldview. Different parts of the world are burning, or burning out, at different rates... so it’s not so much about “worrying about this right now” but “what lessons can one part of the globe learn from another that is a few days/weeks/months ahead”

wool_gather 7y ago
The article is by a U.S. institute about a problem that only affects the U.S. There's nothing for the rest of the world to learn...they already did it right by using the WHO test.
- Retric 7y ago
  Several countries are in similar situations. For example Iceland‘s recent order for more tests got scaled back to 2,000 from 5,000. But unlike the US their acting like the situation is worse than it appears to be to try and limit spread. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_Iceland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_coronavirus_pandemic_in_I...
  - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
    Most of the EU countries only test the very sick or dead. Americans tend tu spend too much time on arguing each other, it's too late to get it under control like that anyway.

malandrew 7y ago

In any post mortem, it's dreadfully important to capture information while everything is fresh. People writing articles like this now are capturing valuable information that will inform any thorough post-mortem performed later. The absolutely most useful post-mortems I've dealt with were ones where information wasn't gathered immediately. An outage that occurs on a Friday night is an example of one that will be low fidelity and less actionable. By Monday morning, everyone involved forgets many important details and the proper order of events necessary to get an accurate picture of what happened.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

watwut 7y ago

The good is that next week when same issue will be about to happen, people able to push back will be in better position to push back and there will be more pressure on them to push back. What happened once will happen again.

robocat 7y ago

Why not when you have time to spare? I personally am trying to spread good information, and push back on misinformation as my part to help, but I feel I am seriously losing that battle at present. Part of fixing “world on fire” is fixing your mistakes. And honestly, just because the US is on fire (due to lack of effective planning and mitigation), doesn’t mean Japan or other first world countries are on fire.

raphlinus 7y ago
I'm also trying my best to push back on misinformation, but not feeling like I'm having much positive effect. It feels like there's just a flood of it.