6 ms·

I mean Asterix is also slightly incorrect and insensitive about a lot of European people ... and we love it.

mikepurvis 7y ago
There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-racist-book-to-your-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-ra...
- conradfr 7y ago
  Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.
  - jordigh 7y ago
    > no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.
      - jordigh 7y ago
        No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtful stereotypes.
        pvaldes 7y ago
        There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup of neopuritanism, SJW and porcelain people. By the way, who are you to tell me how I must to draw an human figure?. Has returned Maoism or Degenerate art? Do you know what other artists create images depicting black people with big lips and different types of hair ornaments? All african artists. If you don't like the comics, just don't read it. The solution is really simple.
        jordigh 7y ago
        Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like? If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like. The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people systematically enslaving whites and then making ridiculous shows and cartoons about the enslaved whites. Of course white people aren't offended by how white people draw themselves. Uderzo didn't even invent the style in which he drew black people. He's just copying the same racist caricatures that existed long before he did.
        7y ago
    - throwaway5466 7y ago
      I don't see why European artists should self-censor so as not to hurt the sensibilities of Americans just because your country was built on slavery and genocide. Sort out your wounds yourselves and let us live. (For the record, there are plenty of "black" characters (Numids, Nubians etc.) in Asterix and Baba is the only one with his characteristic. Many of the others are depicted favorably, as the other commenter said)
      - jordigh 7y ago
        I'm not from the US. I just know what racism looks like, unlike, apparently, many Europeans.
  - fruffy 7y ago
    >or at least a very us-centric view Exactly. Also the black characters in Asterix were not "black", they were Numidians or Nubians. They were characters with agency like any other, the Mansion of Gods comic is the best example.
- francoisLabonte 7y ago
  The pirates are a spoof of another french Belgian comic named Redbeard (Barbe Rouge) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbeard_(comics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbeard_(comics) The wikipedia page even has the Asterix parodies next to the actual ones. Not that it excuses anything.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  The authors are mocking of caribbean pirates, not of black people. The character speaks with a thick caribbean accent and is a stereotype of a strong and dumb man in a multiracial team that acts by greed (and are punished again and again for that). Is not problematic at all. I've always seen him as a Latino character in fact. There are thousands of other strong, brutish, malevolent, greedy or dumb-as-bricks white characters in Asterix also. The main antagonists are almost invariably white. They mock of almost any white stereotype and made fun of almost each european country and culture. ...But they don't trash it or are disrespectful. The histories always include positive characters ambassadors of those cultures, friends or relatives, that get in trouble and ally with the main characters to solve the problem together. They are treated always by Asterix as equals without hesitation, with one bold exception: A black woman. In Asterix and Cleopatra the main characters are sent in a mission to help an african old friend in trouble and the druid goes also (to learn about some discoveries of african people). The friend is depicted as smart, hard worker and educated (architect chief). Another main character in the comic is Cleopatra, depicted as a beauty, very sophisticated and well bred government in charge, their main flaw is being whimsical. This is one of the few characters that is depicted not as equal, but over the main male characters, in an upper class. And this comic was released in 1963. If there is something that Asterix isn't, is racist.
jordigh 7y ago
Not everyone loved it. Astérix and the Goths was an early and very unfavourable depiction of the Germans as militaristic and ruthless, written with WW2 still fresh in mind. The Germans did not like this early strip. Goscinny and Uderzo seemed to regret this early portrayal, as Goths in latter Astérix strips were depicted more sympathetically. My point here is that "political correctness" has a point. Of course most Europeans love Astérix. It's usually harmless and in good fun. It's punching upwards or sideways. But making fun of genocided cultures by completely misunderstanding them is not in good fun. Oumpah-pah or Tintin in the Congo are a different sort of thing than Astérix In Helvetia.
- fruffy 7y ago
  That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.
  - jordigh 7y ago
    Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.
    - fruffy 7y ago
      I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.
      - jordigh 7y ago
        Right, are you younger and far removed from the experience of a German reading this comic soon after WW2? Those were the Germans who did not like this comic.

There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-racist-book-to-your-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-ra...

conradfr 7y ago
Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.
- jordigh 7y ago
  > no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.
    - jordigh 7y ago
      No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtful stereotypes.
      - pvaldes 7y ago
        There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup of neopuritanism, SJW and porcelain people. By the way, who are you to tell me how I must to draw an human figure?. Has returned Maoism or Degenerate art? Do you know what other artists create images depicting black people with big lips and different types of hair ornaments? All african artists. If you don't like the comics, just don't read it. The solution is really simple.
        jordigh 7y ago
        Does a racist caricature exist? Does racism itself exist? If it does, what does it look like? If you don't think the pickaninny or the mammy are racist, I have no idea what you think racism looks like. The pickaninny and the mammy were part of minstrel shows and lots of other pernicious hurtful portrayals. Nobody has ever complained about the other characters in Astérix because there is no history of black people systematically enslaving whites and then making ridiculous shows and cartoons about the enslaved whites. Of course white people aren't offended by how white people draw themselves. Uderzo didn't even invent the style in which he drew black people. He's just copying the same racist caricatures that existed long before he did.
        7y ago
  - throwaway5466 7y ago
    I don't see why European artists should self-censor so as not to hurt the sensibilities of Americans just because your country was built on slavery and genocide. Sort out your wounds yourselves and let us live. (For the record, there are plenty of "black" characters (Numids, Nubians etc.) in Asterix and Baba is the only one with his characteristic. Many of the others are depicted favorably, as the other commenter said)
    - jordigh 7y ago
      I'm not from the US. I just know what racism looks like, unlike, apparently, many Europeans.
- fruffy 7y ago
  >or at least a very us-centric view Exactly. Also the black characters in Asterix were not "black", they were Numidians or Nubians. They were characters with agency like any other, the Mansion of Gods comic is the best example.
francoisLabonte 7y ago
The pirates are a spoof of another french Belgian comic named Redbeard (Barbe Rouge) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbeard_(comics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redbeard_(comics) The wikipedia page even has the Asterix parodies next to the actual ones. Not that it excuses anything.
pvaldes 7y ago
The authors are mocking of caribbean pirates, not of black people. The character speaks with a thick caribbean accent and is a stereotype of a strong and dumb man in a multiracial team that acts by greed (and are punished again and again for that). Is not problematic at all. I've always seen him as a Latino character in fact. There are thousands of other strong, brutish, malevolent, greedy or dumb-as-bricks white characters in Asterix also. The main antagonists are almost invariably white. They mock of almost any white stereotype and made fun of almost each european country and culture. ...But they don't trash it or are disrespectful. The histories always include positive characters ambassadors of those cultures, friends or relatives, that get in trouble and ally with the main characters to solve the problem together. They are treated always by Asterix as equals without hesitation, with one bold exception: A black woman. In Asterix and Cleopatra the main characters are sent in a mission to help an african old friend in trouble and the druid goes also (to learn about some discoveries of african people). The friend is depicted as smart, hard worker and educated (architect chief). Another main character in the comic is Cleopatra, depicted as a beauty, very sophisticated and well bred government in charge, their main flaw is being whimsical. This is one of the few characters that is depicted not as equal, but over the main male characters, in an upper class. And this comic was released in 1963. If there is something that Asterix isn't, is racist.

jordigh 7y ago

Not everyone loved it. Astérix and the Goths was an early and very unfavourable depiction of the Germans as militaristic and ruthless, written with WW2 still fresh in mind. The Germans did not like this early strip. Goscinny and Uderzo seemed to regret this early portrayal, as Goths in latter Astérix strips were depicted more sympathetically. My point here is that "political correctness" has a point. Of course most Europeans love Astérix. It's usually harmless and in good fun. It's punching upwards or sideways. But making fun of genocided cultures by completely misunderstanding them is not in good fun. Oumpah-pah or Tintin in the Congo are a different sort of thing than Astérix In Helvetia.

fruffy 7y ago
That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.
- jordigh 7y ago
  Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.
  - fruffy 7y ago
    I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.
    - jordigh 7y ago
      Right, are you younger and far removed from the experience of a German reading this comic soon after WW2? Those were the Germans who did not like this comic.