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Are you suggesting that the government acted inappropriately by shutting down public activity? This disease has the potential to kill millions, is health and hu

Are you suggesting that the government acted inappropriately by shutting down public activity? This disease has the potential to kill millions, is health and human safety not a responsibility that falls on the government?

tathougies 7y ago
> Are you suggesting that the government acted inappropriately by shutting down public activity? No not at all. I would highly encourage you to actually read my comment. I said: > If the government orders an indefinite shut down, a huge violation of American's civil rights (but one that is warranted in my opinion), then they need to properly reimburse for that drastic change in civil rights. In this sentence 'but one that is warranted in my opinion' indicates that I think the government's actions to shut down the economy are warranted. However, I think we must be reimbursed for the government-ordered loss of rights. Like, if the government wants to seize a house to build a road (eminent domain), I think the government can act correctly to do that, but they must reimburse the home owner the full cost of the house on the market. This means that the government in this case needs to reimburse everyone for the full cost of what their time would have garnered them on the market during the shutdown.
- objektif 7y ago
  What a pile of nonsense. government is doing this for the safety of its citizens. So consider saved lives as a pay back from the government.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    try thinking about it from another angle. my company has not (yet) been severely affected by the shutdown. I'm working from home still collecting my usual paycheck. the sit-down restaurant right next door to me is taking a huge hit for our safety. you don't think we, the taxpayers, owe them anything?
    - objektif 7y ago
      Following that logic everybody owes everybody else a lot of money. American Indians, world wars, actually my employer also my time is a lot more valuable than that...
      - tathougies 7y ago
        Some American Indians are certainly owed money. The World Wars actually ended with a lot of countries indebted to one another. Your employer-employee relationship does not count, because you are not being forced to work for your employer. They are paying you whatever wage could be agreed on.
        objektif 7y ago
        So do you as a libertarian support paying descendants of slaves reparations? That is new among libertarians for sure.
        tathougies 7y ago
        I am not really a libertarian. I do not support race-based reparations (which is the most common form proposed), because the Americans that owe the families of today (the slaveowners) are dead. However, insofar as any personal wealth could be traced to their estates, yes they ought to be paid out to the families of any slave on those estates. This is also true of former free blacks that owned black slaves. That is to say, I am against reparations because I am against collective guilt for something that only some individuals in that collective are responsible for. I am certainly not opposed to collective restitution though, and do think that the descendants of former slaves ought to be compensated. So, if the government wanted to open up civil lawsuits so that African American descendants of slaves (and slaves from other ethnic groups) could sue their former 'master's' or their former 'master's' children or descendants for wealth inherited, and made a process by which such investigations could be carried out in a reasonable and fair manner, then yes, that would be great. That being said, libertarianism does quite often support reparations. Not all libertarians of course, but there are lots of libertarians that do, and justify it based on the fact that a person denied liberty deserves restitution, including their descendants. https://www.theepochtimes.com/return-of-stolen-property-a-libertarian-case-for-reparations_3177301.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/return-of-stolen-property-a-li... Walter Block, a prominent Austrian economics libertarian also makes the case for some kind of reparations: https://mises.org/wire/reparations-vs-property-rights https://mises.org/wire/reparations-vs-property-rights
- ardy42 7y ago
  > However, I think we must be reimbursed for the government-ordered loss of rights. Alright: let's have the government compensate your for your loss of rights during this pandemic by paying you 10% of your pandemic-period income. Let's have it pay for that by assessing a special one-time tax of 10% of your pandemic-period income. The government ain't some magic other, it's us, and your compensation has to come from somewhere. The virus isn't going to pay. This is a country-wide disaster, and there's no getting around the fact that all of us are going to have to pay for it, one way or another.

tathougies 7y ago

> Are you suggesting that the government acted inappropriately by shutting down public activity? No not at all. I would highly encourage you to actually read my comment. I said: > If the government orders an indefinite shut down, a huge violation of American's civil rights (but one that is warranted in my opinion), then they need to properly reimburse for that drastic change in civil rights. In this sentence 'but one that is warranted in my opinion' indicates that I think the government's actions to shut down the economy are warranted. However, I think we must be reimbursed for the government-ordered loss of rights. Like, if the government wants to seize a house to build a road (eminent domain), I think the government can act correctly to do that, but they must reimburse the home owner the full cost of the house on the market. This means that the government in this case needs to reimburse everyone for the full cost of what their time would have garnered them on the market during the shutdown.

objektif 7y ago
What a pile of nonsense. government is doing this for the safety of its citizens. So consider saved lives as a pay back from the government.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  try thinking about it from another angle. my company has not (yet) been severely affected by the shutdown. I'm working from home still collecting my usual paycheck. the sit-down restaurant right next door to me is taking a huge hit for our safety. you don't think we, the taxpayers, owe them anything?
  - objektif 7y ago
    Following that logic everybody owes everybody else a lot of money. American Indians, world wars, actually my employer also my time is a lot more valuable than that...
    - tathougies 7y ago
      Some American Indians are certainly owed money. The World Wars actually ended with a lot of countries indebted to one another. Your employer-employee relationship does not count, because you are not being forced to work for your employer. They are paying you whatever wage could be agreed on.
      - objektif 7y ago
        So do you as a libertarian support paying descendants of slaves reparations? That is new among libertarians for sure.
        tathougies 7y ago
        I am not really a libertarian. I do not support race-based reparations (which is the most common form proposed), because the Americans that owe the families of today (the slaveowners) are dead. However, insofar as any personal wealth could be traced to their estates, yes they ought to be paid out to the families of any slave on those estates. This is also true of former free blacks that owned black slaves. That is to say, I am against reparations because I am against collective guilt for something that only some individuals in that collective are responsible for. I am certainly not opposed to collective restitution though, and do think that the descendants of former slaves ought to be compensated. So, if the government wanted to open up civil lawsuits so that African American descendants of slaves (and slaves from other ethnic groups) could sue their former 'master's' or their former 'master's' children or descendants for wealth inherited, and made a process by which such investigations could be carried out in a reasonable and fair manner, then yes, that would be great. That being said, libertarianism does quite often support reparations. Not all libertarians of course, but there are lots of libertarians that do, and justify it based on the fact that a person denied liberty deserves restitution, including their descendants. https://www.theepochtimes.com/return-of-stolen-property-a-libertarian-case-for-reparations_3177301.html https://www.theepochtimes.com/return-of-stolen-property-a-li... Walter Block, a prominent Austrian economics libertarian also makes the case for some kind of reparations: https://mises.org/wire/reparations-vs-property-rights https://mises.org/wire/reparations-vs-property-rights
ardy42 7y ago
> However, I think we must be reimbursed for the government-ordered loss of rights. Alright: let's have the government compensate your for your loss of rights during this pandemic by paying you 10% of your pandemic-period income. Let's have it pay for that by assessing a special one-time tax of 10% of your pandemic-period income. The government ain't some magic other, it's us, and your compensation has to come from somewhere. The virus isn't going to pay. This is a country-wide disaster, and there's no getting around the fact that all of us are going to have to pay for it, one way or another.