5 ms·

Yeah, I'm often surprised at his level of optimism, but then I realize that he's a big picture kind of guy and thinking quite far ahead from a problem solving c

by twox2 7y ago

Yeah, I'm often surprised at his level of optimism, but then I realize that he's a big picture kind of guy and thinking quite far ahead from a problem solving capacity instead of reacting emotionally to current events.

_bxg1 7y ago
While at the same time not being a sociopath like most of today's other big-picture problem-solvers (Jeff Bezos, etc.)
- meowface 7y ago
  Microsoft CEO Bill Gates likely would have appeared as sociopathic as Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, if not more so. The only question is what retired philanthropist Jeff Bezos would be like.
  - _bxg1 7y ago
    It's possible he was no better at heart, but he didn't have warehouses of low-wage workers doing manual labor under dystopian conditions with which to demonstrate the depths of his sociopathy, so we'll never know
    - natpalmer1776 7y ago
      Except that Amazon pays well over minimum wage, offers health benefits, bonuses, and paid leave. They have draconian employee policies and enforce strict discipline in terms of performance metrics in exchange for these benefits. I'm not saying they are perfect by any means, what I am saying is that it is not some sweatshop operation exploiting those without any other options. Amazon has been a blessing to many people around the world, and to cast them as the villain simply because the unskilled labor job isn't as comfortable and kind as some would have it is frankly wrong in my opinion.
      - _bxg1 7y ago
        When employees are peeing in bottles for fear of getting fired over the time constraints imposed upon them, that's inhumane. No matter what kind of health insurance they get. The point remains that these constraints could easily be loosened just enough to become humane, and the company (and Jeff) would make slightly less money, but everyone would still make off fine. But they aren't.
        natpalmer1776 7y ago
        What about the conditions of migrant day laborers? I had the opportunity to grow up alongside many immigrants from many different regions, and have heard stories about the work their parents did to pay the bills. Let me just say that working at Amazon is a blessing compared to many of the alternatives. There are many jobs out there that are not pleasant. There are many working conditions we would rather not hear about - except to cry out at the social injustice - before resuming our 9-to-5 office jobs. Amazon has raised the bar for this class of work, they have set high expectations and offered higher compensation in return. This job to many is but a foothold to a better life, and to others it is simply an improvement to their previous one. Peeing in a bottle is great fodder for headlines, but they are far from the first to ever need to do that to meet their obligations. Obviously it should be remediated so they don't have to, and I definitely agree some bad PR is a a great way to go about it. However, if that is the worst of the job then all I can say is welcome to the workforce.
        _bxg1 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism The thing that makes Amazon's case stand out is how systematic it is (and the scale at which that system plays out). This is a global company with deep pockets, and it very deliberately meters out exactly how much it can push people to maintain maximum profits. Even when that means people get injured or burned-out; others will take their place. The dire state of the low-wage job market, that causes people to take these jobs because it's the best they can get, is no excuse for treating people as subhuman.
  - vaxman 7y ago
    Bezos is _NOT_ a sociopath. He saw a true need (old guard was permanently retired by dot-com crash, remaining low-wage workers couldn't do much more than HTML) and stepped up with Andy Jaffe's idea for helping them out. He also has submarines, rocket ships and a whole lot of other cool things...(at least Steve Ballmer bought a basketball team and Paul Allen had NFL, basketball and soccer teams!) Gates is doing Carnegie ---not making up for ordering his guards to open fire on striking workers, just making up for countless numbers of entrepreneurial people (not unlike you might find here on Ycombinator if it had existed back in the day) that died after their life's work was utterly destroyed by his wealth building tactics. I leave you with this...from C|Net's Don Reisinger on Paul Allen: "One evening in late December 1982, I heard Bill and Steve [Ballmer] speaking heatedly in Bill's office and paused outside to listen in," he writes in his memoir. "It was easy to get the gist of the conversation. They were bemoaning my recent lack of production and discussing how they might dilute my Microsoft equity by issuing options to themselves and other shareholders. It was clear that they'd been thinking about this for some time." The lack of productivity wasn't intentional, Allen claims. A few months earlier, he was informed by doctors that he had Stage 1-A Hodgkin's lymphoma. He stayed on at Microsoft during his treatment, but Allen says that he was a victim of Gates and Ballmer at his weakest moment." So forgive the rant provoked by the notion one would include Bezos in the same topic with Bill Gates. We suggest Gates just keep writing large checks, playing Bridge with Warren Buffet and be thankful he doesn't have a prison record for what he got away with when the world governments (and their old mainframes) didn't have a clue what he was doing or why it mattered.

by twox2 7y ago

_bxg1 7y ago

While at the same time not being a sociopath like most of today's other big-picture problem-solvers (Jeff Bezos, etc.)

meowface 7y ago
Microsoft CEO Bill Gates likely would have appeared as sociopathic as Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, if not more so. The only question is what retired philanthropist Jeff Bezos would be like.
- _bxg1 7y ago
  It's possible he was no better at heart, but he didn't have warehouses of low-wage workers doing manual labor under dystopian conditions with which to demonstrate the depths of his sociopathy, so we'll never know
  - natpalmer1776 7y ago
    Except that Amazon pays well over minimum wage, offers health benefits, bonuses, and paid leave. They have draconian employee policies and enforce strict discipline in terms of performance metrics in exchange for these benefits. I'm not saying they are perfect by any means, what I am saying is that it is not some sweatshop operation exploiting those without any other options. Amazon has been a blessing to many people around the world, and to cast them as the villain simply because the unskilled labor job isn't as comfortable and kind as some would have it is frankly wrong in my opinion.
    - _bxg1 7y ago
      When employees are peeing in bottles for fear of getting fired over the time constraints imposed upon them, that's inhumane. No matter what kind of health insurance they get. The point remains that these constraints could easily be loosened just enough to become humane, and the company (and Jeff) would make slightly less money, but everyone would still make off fine. But they aren't.
      - natpalmer1776 7y ago
        What about the conditions of migrant day laborers? I had the opportunity to grow up alongside many immigrants from many different regions, and have heard stories about the work their parents did to pay the bills. Let me just say that working at Amazon is a blessing compared to many of the alternatives. There are many jobs out there that are not pleasant. There are many working conditions we would rather not hear about - except to cry out at the social injustice - before resuming our 9-to-5 office jobs. Amazon has raised the bar for this class of work, they have set high expectations and offered higher compensation in return. This job to many is but a foothold to a better life, and to others it is simply an improvement to their previous one. Peeing in a bottle is great fodder for headlines, but they are far from the first to ever need to do that to meet their obligations. Obviously it should be remediated so they don't have to, and I definitely agree some bad PR is a a great way to go about it. However, if that is the worst of the job then all I can say is welcome to the workforce.
        _bxg1 7y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism The thing that makes Amazon's case stand out is how systematic it is (and the scale at which that system plays out). This is a global company with deep pockets, and it very deliberately meters out exactly how much it can push people to maintain maximum profits. Even when that means people get injured or burned-out; others will take their place. The dire state of the low-wage job market, that causes people to take these jobs because it's the best they can get, is no excuse for treating people as subhuman.
- vaxman 7y ago
  Bezos is _NOT_ a sociopath. He saw a true need (old guard was permanently retired by dot-com crash, remaining low-wage workers couldn't do much more than HTML) and stepped up with Andy Jaffe's idea for helping them out. He also has submarines, rocket ships and a whole lot of other cool things...(at least Steve Ballmer bought a basketball team and Paul Allen had NFL, basketball and soccer teams!) Gates is doing Carnegie ---not making up for ordering his guards to open fire on striking workers, just making up for countless numbers of entrepreneurial people (not unlike you might find here on Ycombinator if it had existed back in the day) that died after their life's work was utterly destroyed by his wealth building tactics. I leave you with this...from C|Net's Don Reisinger on Paul Allen: "One evening in late December 1982, I heard Bill and Steve [Ballmer] speaking heatedly in Bill's office and paused outside to listen in," he writes in his memoir. "It was easy to get the gist of the conversation. They were bemoaning my recent lack of production and discussing how they might dilute my Microsoft equity by issuing options to themselves and other shareholders. It was clear that they'd been thinking about this for some time." The lack of productivity wasn't intentional, Allen claims. A few months earlier, he was informed by doctors that he had Stage 1-A Hodgkin's lymphoma. He stayed on at Microsoft during his treatment, but Allen says that he was a victim of Gates and Ballmer at his weakest moment." So forgive the rant provoked by the notion one would include Bezos in the same topic with Bill Gates. We suggest Gates just keep writing large checks, playing Bridge with Warren Buffet and be thankful he doesn't have a prison record for what he got away with when the world governments (and their old mainframes) didn't have a clue what he was doing or why it mattered.