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So much for the advertisement-powered web. Congratulations, privacy people: you win. I hope the new web is everything you hoped. If it isn't, you have only your

So much for the advertisement-powered web. Congratulations, privacy people: you win. I hope the new web is everything you hoped. If it isn't, you have only yourselves to blame. Enjoy the paywalls.

nydel 7y ago
What do you think the new web is going to be? Sincere. Not sure what you're talking about at all and would like to.
- quotemstr 7y ago
  I think the new web will be one made up of closed off islands that use strict paywalls to finance themselves. I also think the total amount of content will be lower and that the remaining platforms will more heavily skew towards "safe" guidelines.
  - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
    I don’t remember the internet being like that before invasive advertising and tracking took over...
    - ficklepickle 7y ago
      It won't go back to the early web, but it will certainly survive. Much like life, people find a way. If there is demand, innovators will find a way to meet it. The webs continued existence is not dependent on surveillance capitalism.
      - quotemstr 7y ago
        > Much like life, people find a way. If there is demand, innovators will find a way to meet it. That's like saying that life is equally good and the US and North Korea because "people find a way" to work around problems. There's a real way in which economic inefficiencies reduce our standard of living. Making advertising worse on purpose is just a race to the bottom, all feel-good crusading without any end benefit to humanity. "But I won't be tracked!", the privacy people say. So what? What harm will you have prevented?
function_seven 7y ago
"So much for the tracking-advertisement-powered web" I'm looking forward to it. Seriously. I know you're intending to be facetious with this, but everything you listed sounds good to me. Either charge for your service, or include ads that don't follow me around the Internet. Somehow advertising worked on radio, on TV, and in print without correlating data about each viewer with all their other habits. I see no reason why that can't be the same online.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Do you want 7 minutes of ads for every 23minutes of web browsing, like TV? Did you not notice that print is dead?
  - function_seven 7y ago
    No. That’s why I pay for Hulu and Netflix, and DVR other content. Print as a medium may be dead, but journalism is still here. And it’s possible to provide without invasive tracking, just like it has been for centuries. The transition from ink to pixels doesn’t rely on analytics to succeed.
    - _eht 7y ago
      You reckon Hulu, Netflix, et al, are just sitting on all the user data you are giving them, totally respecting it... definitly not monetizing from it? When was the last time you read T&C?
      - function_seven 7y ago
        Yeah, I realized I'd see this reply as soon as I submitted the comment. Of course they're selling my data. I wish they didn't. And to circle back to the original comment I replied to: They don't have to. A business can be run providing entertainment without granular user tracking. HBO and Showtime did it back when they were just add-ons to cable packages. What OG commenter was implying, is that the Internet will be worse without 3rd-party cookies and tracking. I can't disagree strongly enough.
layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
Why would you need third-party cookies for advertisements?
- vntok 7y ago
  Because managing advertisers and selling ad space is extremely time-consuming or expensive to set up and maintain, and most companies being SMBs they don't have the necessary manpower to do so?
  - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
    I don’t see how this necessitates cookies at all.
    - vntok 7y ago
      How do you propose to implement ad rotation (a different ad from a different advertiser served on each pageload, important for sales), ad discrimination (different ad from same advertiser once a click was registered on an ad by a particular user) or fraud prevention controls without tracking? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and you are suggesting to replace cookies with browser or DNS fingerprinting?
      - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
        >ad rotation Show them in random order, or based on timestamp. >ad discrimination I don't want to be discriminated. If I have to watch ads, then I want the same ads as everyone else. I don't see how that's a problem, as billboards and TV ads are the same for everyone too.
smnthermes 7y ago
Do you not think it's possible to use fingerprinting to track users?

So much for the advertisement-powered web. Congratulations, privacy people: you win. I hope the new web is everything you hoped. If it isn't, you have only yourselves to blame. Enjoy the paywalls.

nydel 7y ago

What do you think the new web is going to be? Sincere. Not sure what you're talking about at all and would like to.

quotemstr 7y ago
I think the new web will be one made up of closed off islands that use strict paywalls to finance themselves. I also think the total amount of content will be lower and that the remaining platforms will more heavily skew towards "safe" guidelines.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  I don’t remember the internet being like that before invasive advertising and tracking took over...
  - ficklepickle 7y ago
    It won't go back to the early web, but it will certainly survive. Much like life, people find a way. If there is demand, innovators will find a way to meet it. The webs continued existence is not dependent on surveillance capitalism.
    - quotemstr 7y ago
      > Much like life, people find a way. If there is demand, innovators will find a way to meet it. That's like saying that life is equally good and the US and North Korea because "people find a way" to work around problems. There's a real way in which economic inefficiencies reduce our standard of living. Making advertising worse on purpose is just a race to the bottom, all feel-good crusading without any end benefit to humanity. "But I won't be tracked!", the privacy people say. So what? What harm will you have prevented?

function_seven 7y ago

"So much for the tracking-advertisement-powered web" I'm looking forward to it. Seriously. I know you're intending to be facetious with this, but everything you listed sounds good to me. Either charge for your service, or include ads that don't follow me around the Internet. Somehow advertising worked on radio, on TV, and in print without correlating data about each viewer with all their other habits. I see no reason why that can't be the same online.

lonelappde 7y ago
Do you want 7 minutes of ads for every 23minutes of web browsing, like TV? Did you not notice that print is dead?
- function_seven 7y ago
  No. That’s why I pay for Hulu and Netflix, and DVR other content. Print as a medium may be dead, but journalism is still here. And it’s possible to provide without invasive tracking, just like it has been for centuries. The transition from ink to pixels doesn’t rely on analytics to succeed.
  - _eht 7y ago
    You reckon Hulu, Netflix, et al, are just sitting on all the user data you are giving them, totally respecting it... definitly not monetizing from it? When was the last time you read T&C?
    - function_seven 7y ago
      Yeah, I realized I'd see this reply as soon as I submitted the comment. Of course they're selling my data. I wish they didn't. And to circle back to the original comment I replied to: They don't have to. A business can be run providing entertainment without granular user tracking. HBO and Showtime did it back when they were just add-ons to cable packages. What OG commenter was implying, is that the Internet will be worse without 3rd-party cookies and tracking. I can't disagree strongly enough.

layoutIfNeeded 7y ago

Why would you need third-party cookies for advertisements?

vntok 7y ago
Because managing advertisers and selling ad space is extremely time-consuming or expensive to set up and maintain, and most companies being SMBs they don't have the necessary manpower to do so?
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  I don’t see how this necessitates cookies at all.
  - vntok 7y ago
    How do you propose to implement ad rotation (a different ad from a different advertiser served on each pageload, important for sales), ad discrimination (different ad from same advertiser once a click was registered on an ad by a particular user) or fraud prevention controls without tracking? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding and you are suggesting to replace cookies with browser or DNS fingerprinting?
    - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
      >ad rotation Show them in random order, or based on timestamp. >ad discrimination I don't want to be discriminated. If I have to watch ads, then I want the same ads as everyone else. I don't see how that's a problem, as billboards and TV ads are the same for everyone too.

smnthermes 7y ago

Do you not think it's possible to use fingerprinting to track users?