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I spent hours of my childhood reading Asterix, Tintin and Gaston [0]. Each had an amazing slightly different universe. Now living in the US it always amazes me

I spent hours of my childhood reading Asterix, Tintin and Gaston [0]. Each had an amazing slightly different universe. Now living in the US it always amazes me how different the Comics culture over here is. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_(comics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_(comics)

yardie 7y ago
Coming from the opposite direction. I grew up reading Marvel and DC. Didn't care for too much of it as an adult. Then when I moved to France and discovered the BD titles weren't just plentiful they were high quality as well.
phtrivier 7y ago
Ever read Oumpah-Pah (the probably slighly incorrect and insensitive native american character) from their beginning ? https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Oumpah-Pah-Tome-1-Oumpah-Pah-le-Peau-rouge-1285.html https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Oumpah-Pah-Tome-1-Oumpah-Pah-l...
- conradfr 7y ago
  I mean Asterix is also slightly incorrect and insensitive about a lot of European people ... and we love it.
  - mikepurvis 7y ago
    There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-racist-book-to-your-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-ra...
    - conradfr 7y ago
      Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.
      - jordigh 7y ago
        > no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.
        pvaldes 7y ago
        Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.
        jordigh 7y ago
        No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtful stereotypes.
        pvaldes 7y ago
        There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup of neopuritanism, SJW and porcelain people. By the way, who are you to tell me how I must to draw an human figure?. Has returned Maoism or Degenerate art? Do you know what other artists create images depicting black people with big lips and different types of hair ornaments? All african artists. If you don't like the comics, just don't read it. The solution is really simple.
  - jordigh 7y ago
    Not everyone loved it. Astérix and the Goths was an early and very unfavourable depiction of the Germans as militaristic and ruthless, written with WW2 still fresh in mind. The Germans did not like this early strip. Goscinny and Uderzo seemed to regret this early portrayal, as Goths in latter Astérix strips were depicted more sympathetically. My point here is that "political correctness" has a point. Of course most Europeans love Astérix. It's usually harmless and in good fun. It's punching upwards or sideways. But making fun of genocided cultures by completely misunderstanding them is not in good fun. Oumpah-pah or Tintin in the Congo are a different sort of thing than Astérix In Helvetia.
    - fruffy 7y ago
      That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.
      - jordigh 7y ago
        Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.
        fruffy 7y ago
        I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.
        jordigh 7y ago
        Right, are you younger and far removed from the experience of a German reading this comic soon after WW2? Those were the Germans who did not like this comic.
- andrepd 7y ago
  They were different times. Tintin is rather fascinating in that regard, in that the first 3 albums at least are egregiously incorrect caricatures of russia/africa/america with a decidedly colonialist, white supermacist, paternalist bent (very real, inarguably so, take a read yourself). A product of being literally ordered by an ultraconservative catholic priest. At a certain point in his life, Hergé (the author) met what would become a close friend (the basis of the character Chang in the albums). This caused such a wild shift in his worldview that the albums shifted from being these oversimplified caricatures of "inferior nations" to being one of the most thoroughly well-researched and eclectic comic book series/universes of all time.
  - bvandewalle 7y ago
    It is also a good reminder that the moral standards back in those days were completely different and I think we cannot judge those books with the moral standards of today.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      But it also makes them dated products of their times.
    - andrepd 7y ago
      Even in "those days" that posture was already inexcusable. The man who edited Le Petit Vingtième was a literal fascist. Quoting from wikipedia: >Beginning a series of newspaper supplements in late 1928, Wallez founded a supplement for children, Le Petit Vingtième (The Little Twentieth), which subsequently appeared in Le Vingtième Siècle every Thursday. Carrying strong Catholic and fascist messages, many of its passages were explicitly anti-semitic. To my mind what forgives this is not the fact that it was done long ago, but simply the fact that he so drastically changed his worldview, and repudiated his earlier work. It takes particular strength of character to admit one was wrong in one's core beliefs, and effect real change which reflects true regret.
laumars 7y ago
I grew up with Asterix and Tintin too. Also Garfield. I was also really into Fighting Fantasy books too. One day at the local library I stumbled upon an Asterix adventure book and it felt like Christmas had arrived.
zouhair 7y ago
Le Journal de Spirou et Le Journal de Tintin were my whole childhood.
jacquesm 7y ago
With Gaston one of the neat bits was that every signature at the bottom of a panel was a gag in its own right. No two were alike.
- bvandewalle 7y ago
  Ah you are right, the Franquin signature was something to look forward to!
fruffy 7y ago
I also loved the Spirou comics. Le Petit Spirou was very "educational" as a kid. Agree about the comic book culture, the only people I meet here in the US that have read Belgian comics seem to be other Europeans. But on the other hand, even though I was reading comics voraciously as a kid I knew nothing about DC and Marvel before the comic book movie craze started.
205guy 7y ago
Gaston is one of my favorites, laugh-out-loud funny as a kid and adult. Such great set-ups, visual gags, and word-play. For adventure, sci-fi, and incredible art, Yoko Tsuno was another great one that has stood the test of time. Oddly, I don't like Tintin as an adult, it's too whiz-bang and bumbling. After growing up on European comics, the ones in the US were bland, just plain crude (Garfield), or overtly political (Bloom County, Doonesbury). The only one that had the equivalent depth and humor, while being uniquely American, was Calvin and Hobbes.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  Peanuts? The Far Side? Family Circle (sometimes, and before the original author died)
  - 205guy 7y ago
    Peanuts was in its prime before my time, but when I read it, it was cute but not funny. To me it seemed like a bunch of kids with adult neuroses, it seemed disconnected. I loved the Far Side when it was at its peak in the late 80's, but it's just disconnected one-frame gags. And upon re-reading as an adult, they were very inconsistent, and the surrealism hasn't aged well. Maybe some comics just belong in childhood/teenage years, but it's clear that some really work for adults as well. Family Circle falls into the cute one-strip category, but it didn't have much depth either--too saccharine. To me it didn't compare to European comics focused on family antics like Boule et Bill, or Mafalda (Argentinian). I really think the American comics were hampered by the daily strip in the newspaper format. Many authors did try to make longer story arcs over a week of strips, and I preferred those. Calvin and Hobbes was the best at it, but there were other good ones such as Mutts and Over the Hedge. There were/are authors working outside the strip format, making whole book comics like in Europe, but I never got into those--too dark (Maus) or super-hero (Watchmen) or never-ending. For example, the more recent Amulet series started out well, but each book went deeper and deeper into the story and never really resolved the initial tension--I gave up after 7 or 8 books.
- frandroid 7y ago
  Speaking of crudeness, Hergé's worldview was pretty racist... Those first 9 albums or so are pretty cringeworthy. Especially considering that they've been rewritten a couple times to adapt to changing times. (I say that as a huge Tintin fan growing up.)

yardie 7y ago

Coming from the opposite direction. I grew up reading Marvel and DC. Didn't care for too much of it as an adult. Then when I moved to France and discovered the BD titles weren't just plentiful they were high quality as well.

phtrivier 7y ago

Ever read Oumpah-Pah (the probably slighly incorrect and insensitive native american character) from their beginning ? https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Oumpah-Pah-Tome-1-Oumpah-Pah-le-Peau-rouge-1285.html https://www.bedetheque.com/BD-Oumpah-Pah-Tome-1-Oumpah-Pah-l...

conradfr 7y ago
I mean Asterix is also slightly incorrect and insensitive about a lot of European people ... and we love it.
- mikepurvis 7y ago
  There are a few bits of Asterix that are pretty problematic, too, for example the depiction of the African pirate. YMMV, but for me it's a small enough piece that it's worthwhile just talking it over with my kids (vs something like Dr. Seuss's "If I Ran The Zoo", which probably belongs in the dustbin of history, along with Song of the South and everything else that really isn't worth it at this point). https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-racist-book-to-your-kids.html https://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/magazine/how-to-read-a-ra...
  - conradfr 7y ago
    Wow, I've been reading Asterix since I'm 6 and never thought it was a gorilla, that's seem really stupid to me, or at least a very us-centric view, no offense. I can see Tintin in the Congo being worth discussing, I mean it's from the 30s, but even as the child I knew to take some distance from it even without adult supervision.
    - jordigh 7y ago
      > no offense Of course no offense. You don't have a history of the most brutal systematic slavery in history and the ensuing racism that persists to this day. European subjugation and mockery of Africa is older and has left wounds that have had more time to heal. The wounds are still fresh in the US and they keep being reopened, so it's of course natural for them to still hurt in the US.
      - pvaldes 7y ago
        Not each time that a black character appears in a book is about slavery.
        jordigh 7y ago
        No, but every time a black character is drawn as a racist caricature with giant lips and a bone in their hair, it's a racist caricature which was systematically used in the US and other countries to hurtfully mock black people. There's a long history of such racist stereotypes in American and European culture. It's not benign. There are other ways to draw black people in comic books that doesn't have to rely on hurtful stereotypes.
        pvaldes 7y ago
        There are many ways to draw people, and Uderzo had theirs. Asterix is short, has a big nose and promotes drugs abuse, Obelix is dumb and will hurt the feelings of fat people, he eats wild boars and vegan children could feel unconfortable or pick up dangerous ideas reading this comics. Ideafix chase cats in a flagrant case of animal cruelty... Is just a parody. Please calm yourself. I'm really tired of this dark soup of neopuritanism, SJW and porcelain people. By the way, who are you to tell me how I must to draw an human figure?. Has returned Maoism or Degenerate art? Do you know what other artists create images depicting black people with big lips and different types of hair ornaments? All african artists. If you don't like the comics, just don't read it. The solution is really simple.
- jordigh 7y ago
  Not everyone loved it. Astérix and the Goths was an early and very unfavourable depiction of the Germans as militaristic and ruthless, written with WW2 still fresh in mind. The Germans did not like this early strip. Goscinny and Uderzo seemed to regret this early portrayal, as Goths in latter Astérix strips were depicted more sympathetically. My point here is that "political correctness" has a point. Of course most Europeans love Astérix. It's usually harmless and in good fun. It's punching upwards or sideways. But making fun of genocided cultures by completely misunderstanding them is not in good fun. Oumpah-pah or Tintin in the Congo are a different sort of thing than Astérix In Helvetia.
  - fruffy 7y ago
    That's funny, I am German and that comic book was always one of my favourites. I never made the connection that it was supposed to be demeaning or that there was a controversy around it. I always took it as being cheeky like Asterix in Britain.
    - jordigh 7y ago
      Are you perhaps younger? It had a not great contemporary reception and when translated in West Germany included a lot of anti-East Germany propaganda.
      - fruffy 7y ago
        I think you are talking about the first publisher who tried to insert controversial elements into Asterix. He was somewhat of a nationalist. His license got pulled and the comics got re-released in the normal format. Those were two different things.
        jordigh 7y ago
        Right, are you younger and far removed from the experience of a German reading this comic soon after WW2? Those were the Germans who did not like this comic.
andrepd 7y ago
They were different times. Tintin is rather fascinating in that regard, in that the first 3 albums at least are egregiously incorrect caricatures of russia/africa/america with a decidedly colonialist, white supermacist, paternalist bent (very real, inarguably so, take a read yourself). A product of being literally ordered by an ultraconservative catholic priest. At a certain point in his life, Hergé (the author) met what would become a close friend (the basis of the character Chang in the albums). This caused such a wild shift in his worldview that the albums shifted from being these oversimplified caricatures of "inferior nations" to being one of the most thoroughly well-researched and eclectic comic book series/universes of all time.
- bvandewalle 7y ago
  It is also a good reminder that the moral standards back in those days were completely different and I think we cannot judge those books with the moral standards of today.
  - lonelappde 7y ago
    But it also makes them dated products of their times.
  - andrepd 7y ago
    Even in "those days" that posture was already inexcusable. The man who edited Le Petit Vingtième was a literal fascist. Quoting from wikipedia: >Beginning a series of newspaper supplements in late 1928, Wallez founded a supplement for children, Le Petit Vingtième (The Little Twentieth), which subsequently appeared in Le Vingtième Siècle every Thursday. Carrying strong Catholic and fascist messages, many of its passages were explicitly anti-semitic. To my mind what forgives this is not the fact that it was done long ago, but simply the fact that he so drastically changed his worldview, and repudiated his earlier work. It takes particular strength of character to admit one was wrong in one's core beliefs, and effect real change which reflects true regret.

laumars 7y ago

I grew up with Asterix and Tintin too. Also Garfield. I was also really into Fighting Fantasy books too. One day at the local library I stumbled upon an Asterix adventure book and it felt like Christmas had arrived.

zouhair 7y ago

Le Journal de Spirou et Le Journal de Tintin were my whole childhood.

jacquesm 7y ago

With Gaston one of the neat bits was that every signature at the bottom of a panel was a gag in its own right. No two were alike.

bvandewalle 7y ago
Ah you are right, the Franquin signature was something to look forward to!

fruffy 7y ago

I also loved the Spirou comics. Le Petit Spirou was very "educational" as a kid. Agree about the comic book culture, the only people I meet here in the US that have read Belgian comics seem to be other Europeans. But on the other hand, even though I was reading comics voraciously as a kid I knew nothing about DC and Marvel before the comic book movie craze started.

205guy 7y ago

Gaston is one of my favorites, laugh-out-loud funny as a kid and adult. Such great set-ups, visual gags, and word-play. For adventure, sci-fi, and incredible art, Yoko Tsuno was another great one that has stood the test of time. Oddly, I don't like Tintin as an adult, it's too whiz-bang and bumbling. After growing up on European comics, the ones in the US were bland, just plain crude (Garfield), or overtly political (Bloom County, Doonesbury). The only one that had the equivalent depth and humor, while being uniquely American, was Calvin and Hobbes.

lonelappde 7y ago
Peanuts? The Far Side? Family Circle (sometimes, and before the original author died)
- 205guy 7y ago
  Peanuts was in its prime before my time, but when I read it, it was cute but not funny. To me it seemed like a bunch of kids with adult neuroses, it seemed disconnected. I loved the Far Side when it was at its peak in the late 80's, but it's just disconnected one-frame gags. And upon re-reading as an adult, they were very inconsistent, and the surrealism hasn't aged well. Maybe some comics just belong in childhood/teenage years, but it's clear that some really work for adults as well. Family Circle falls into the cute one-strip category, but it didn't have much depth either--too saccharine. To me it didn't compare to European comics focused on family antics like Boule et Bill, or Mafalda (Argentinian). I really think the American comics were hampered by the daily strip in the newspaper format. Many authors did try to make longer story arcs over a week of strips, and I preferred those. Calvin and Hobbes was the best at it, but there were other good ones such as Mutts and Over the Hedge. There were/are authors working outside the strip format, making whole book comics like in Europe, but I never got into those--too dark (Maus) or super-hero (Watchmen) or never-ending. For example, the more recent Amulet series started out well, but each book went deeper and deeper into the story and never really resolved the initial tension--I gave up after 7 or 8 books.
frandroid 7y ago
Speaking of crudeness, Hergé's worldview was pretty racist... Those first 9 albums or so are pretty cringeworthy. Especially considering that they've been rewritten a couple times to adapt to changing times. (I say that as a huge Tintin fan growing up.)