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Background: Apple is abolishing (third-party) kernel extension to increase security: https://developer.apple.com/system-extensions/ https://developer.apple.com

Background: Apple is abolishing (third-party) kernel extension to increase security: https://developer.apple.com/system-extensions/ https://developer.apple.com/system-extensions/

riazrizvi 7y ago
And Apple takes another step closer toward a proprietary OS away from UNIX. Perhaps 10.16 will lose certification [1]. [1] https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/ https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/ EDIT: I can't find anything that references kernel extensions in the conformance [2] section of the spec, so maybe 10.16 will adhere to the UNIX03 standard after all. [2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/ https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  POSIX does not standardise kernel extensions. You can't use Linux kernel extensions on other OSes for example.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    You can't even use Linux kernel extensions across different versions of Linux…
- pjmlp 7y ago
  QNX is also a certified UNIX for embedded deployment, yet it is a micro-kernel OS. https://blackberry.qnx.com/en/resource-center/qnx-certifications https://blackberry.qnx.com/en/resource-center/qnx-certificat... UNIX certification doesn't say anything about how a kernel should be implemented, or what kind of driver architecture is used.
- loeg 7y ago
  Anyone can buy UNIX certification. It just means you set fire to an appropriately sized bundle of cash. In return you get a nice sticker from the trademark holder. It is not especially meaningful.
hs86 7y ago
If they keep all third parties out of their kernel, could this ease a possible x86-to-ARM transition?
- internalthief 7y ago
  Yes, absolutely.
- flqn 7y ago
  Potentially, though there are other solutions that could be used. There was a product they used a while back during the transition to x86 architecture that did code translation, for example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    That would work with user-space extensions, but would it work in the kernel?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    (Better known as Rosetta, when Apple licensed it.)
  - skunkworker 7y ago
    That was and still is an impressive piece of code. Another more recent one is the RPCS3 PS3 Emulator, emulating the async PPC cell chip on modern x86 processors.
0xff00ffee 7y ago
I always felt a little queasy installing a .kext from some random foreign-language websites (be it FTDI, or Alfa drivers, or even RealTek updates). I can feel the bias in me, "Oh no, this must be bad because it's foreign," which is absurd, but I still shouldn't be asked to sudo something when I buy offbrand hardware.
- mambodog 7y ago
  You're right, Scottish English does seem like a foreign language sometimes... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTDI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTDI
  - Operyl 7y ago
    Assuming the poster is American, then yup .. still foreign.
  - 0xff00ffee 7y ago
    Huh. My bias runs so deep that I somehow misremembered a Chinese-language document from FTDI, which I guess I made up in my mind. Unless like some companies their drivers are done in their Taiwan office. It quite common for multinational companies to distribute projects to different sites.

Background: Apple is abolishing (third-party) kernel extension to increase security: https://developer.apple.com/system-extensions/ https://developer.apple.com/system-extensions/

riazrizvi 7y ago

And Apple takes another step closer toward a proprietary OS away from UNIX. Perhaps 10.16 will lose certification [1]. [1] https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/ https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/ EDIT: I can't find anything that references kernel extensions in the conformance [2] section of the spec, so maybe 10.16 will adhere to the UNIX03 standard after all. [2] https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/ https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/

TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
POSIX does not standardise kernel extensions. You can't use Linux kernel extensions on other OSes for example.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  You can't even use Linux kernel extensions across different versions of Linux…
pjmlp 7y ago
QNX is also a certified UNIX for embedded deployment, yet it is a micro-kernel OS. https://blackberry.qnx.com/en/resource-center/qnx-certifications https://blackberry.qnx.com/en/resource-center/qnx-certificat... UNIX certification doesn't say anything about how a kernel should be implemented, or what kind of driver architecture is used.
loeg 7y ago
Anyone can buy UNIX certification. It just means you set fire to an appropriately sized bundle of cash. In return you get a nice sticker from the trademark holder. It is not especially meaningful.

hs86 7y ago

If they keep all third parties out of their kernel, could this ease a possible x86-to-ARM transition?

internalthief 7y ago
Yes, absolutely.
flqn 7y ago
Potentially, though there are other solutions that could be used. There was a product they used a while back during the transition to x86 architecture that did code translation, for example. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickTransit
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  That would work with user-space extensions, but would it work in the kernel?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  (Better known as Rosetta, when Apple licensed it.)
- skunkworker 7y ago
  That was and still is an impressive piece of code. Another more recent one is the RPCS3 PS3 Emulator, emulating the async PPC cell chip on modern x86 processors.

0xff00ffee 7y ago

I always felt a little queasy installing a .kext from some random foreign-language websites (be it FTDI, or Alfa drivers, or even RealTek updates). I can feel the bias in me, "Oh no, this must be bad because it's foreign," which is absurd, but I still shouldn't be asked to sudo something when I buy offbrand hardware.

mambodog 7y ago
You're right, Scottish English does seem like a foreign language sometimes... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTDI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FTDI
- Operyl 7y ago
  Assuming the poster is American, then yup .. still foreign.
- 0xff00ffee 7y ago
  Huh. My bias runs so deep that I somehow misremembered a Chinese-language document from FTDI, which I guess I made up in my mind. Unless like some companies their drivers are done in their Taiwan office. It quite common for multinational companies to distribute projects to different sites.