5 ms·

This is repeated a lot, however just like most things - there's more nuance to it than just "wear masks". In most places, there's simply not enough masks to pr

This is repeated a lot, however just like most things - there's more nuance to it than just "wear masks". In most places, there's simply not enough masks to protect those most at risk (eg: healthcare workers who are constantly in contact with infected patients) AND to have everyone in the community using them. Improper use of masks is at best pointless, at worst can actually make things worse. The vast majority of people are not used to wearing PPE or dealing with contaminated items. It requires some level of training to fit and wear a mask correctly, and how to properly dispose of them. You see this with a number of people touching the outside of their mask, and then scratching their face/nose/eyes. or pulling their mask down below their nose, or where it's not even properly sealed around their mouth.

endorphone 7y ago
They didn't say just wear masks. You're beating on a strawman. Masks protect the wearer. This is blatantly obvious and scientific reality. Messages to the contrary are absolute propaganda (for instance a common line is "there is no evidence to show protection for civilians"[1] --- because there has never been a study for that case. Yet it's a specious, absurd claim because we know the masks are protective). Yes, masks are in short supply. This doesn't make misinformation acceptable (including the absurd, anti-reality claim that unless you're perfectly trained and certified perfectly fitted it is "pointless", which is just ridiculous noise). People already touch their face hundreds to thousands of times a day, so the other fear mongering "you'll adjust it" is another bit of nonsensical noise. As supplies ramp up and we have to return to some semblance of normal society, masks will not only be seen prevalently, they'll be encouraged as one mechanism of controlling spread. And at the time it'll be interesting how all of the propagandists change their tune. [1] Excluding the evidence in front of our eyes where countries where mask use is prevalent are seeing little spread.
tomp 7y ago
Can you explain how improper use of masks can make things worse?
- monkeywork 7y ago
  false sense of security - gives the person the impression they are protected and allows them to lower their guard in other area's that they might now if they weren't wearing it. edit To put it in tech terms ... someone poorly implementing a security / encryption method may be more dangerous than someone who didn't because the person who didn't may take additional steps that the person who falsely thinks they are protected wouldn't.
  - tomp 7y ago
    Couldn't you say the same thing about every non-100%-certain method of protection?
    - monkeywork 7y ago
      The conversation was about using the protection incorrectly - and yes you could likely say the same thing about any method of protection that is being used incorrectly. Airbags are great - shouldn't put one in front a baby. Sunscreen is fantastic - assuming it's not expired. etc etc.
  - pmachinery 7y ago
    > false sense of security - gives the person the impression they are protected and allows them to lower their guard in other area's that they might now if they weren't wearing it. Using this argument bullet poof vests and helmets "make things worse". In my experience a mask is a conspicuous reminder of an unusual/dangerous situation - that I would definitely forget about at certain times if I was not wearing a mask - and to be constantly on my guard.
    - monkeywork 7y ago
      I've seen and heard from people who think social distancing doesn't apply to them if they are wearing a mask... hell there are people who don't think social distancing applies if they are indoors. edit Also people who are using bullet proof vests / helmets are generally TRAINED on how to use them, thus know the limits.
m4rtink 7y ago
As long as everyone in public wears a mask, it's not really important how good it is as long as it covers the mounth and the nose. This is because you basically switch from protecting the wearer to protecting other from infected asymptomatic wearer. In such a case even a simple home made mask does wonders in preventing infected droplets contaminating a wide area around the wearer, not to mention the benefit of reducing hand based contamination due to not being able to touch your mouth and nose. Due to this the Czech government introduced mandatory mask wearing (including self made) in public - if you don't wear one, the police will first warn you and then you get a hefty fine if you still don't comply. Also Slovakia (a neighboring country) just introduced the same. As for protecting medical personel - yep they definitely need the best protective equipment tjey can get, to prevent even more of them getting infected (there have already been cases for medical personel, police & firefighters). For that reason an "air bridge" has been established that regularly airlifts PPE from china, even including one of the NATO leased gigantic AN-124s. That way both regular people are protected (from infecting each other) and first line responders as well (by proper air lifted PPE). Foe this reason ot feels worrying or almost sad to see the reaction in te UK and USA slowly waking up to the seriousness of the whole situation. - we have no PPE for first line workers, but rest assured it has been ordered (unless its in plane and in the air now, it's too late, should have been done weeks ago) - not enough beds/ventilators (should have cleared hospitals of elective surgeries and non acute cases) - cant tell people to wear masks as there are none (tell them to make some or face a fine) - people still congregating in bars and restaurants (you should have closed those long ago) - with schools and day care closed first line responders have nowhere to put their children (keep some vare centers open to care of children of critical workers) - people are not respecting our guidance (well, then it should not be a guidance but punishable emergency state ordnance) Hopefully others can get up to speed quickly before it is too late. The local emergency measures in Czech Republichave been pretty strict, but so far (and I really hope not to jinx it) seem to be working. Arround 1200 infected so far with smaller Neighboring Austria havig 5 thousand. Still two people died... But at lest the people on ventilators are still in the tens.

endorphone 7y ago

They didn't say just wear masks. You're beating on a strawman. Masks protect the wearer. This is blatantly obvious and scientific reality. Messages to the contrary are absolute propaganda (for instance a common line is "there is no evidence to show protection for civilians"[1] --- because there has never been a study for that case. Yet it's a specious, absurd claim because we know the masks are protective). Yes, masks are in short supply. This doesn't make misinformation acceptable (including the absurd, anti-reality claim that unless you're perfectly trained and certified perfectly fitted it is "pointless", which is just ridiculous noise). People already touch their face hundreds to thousands of times a day, so the other fear mongering "you'll adjust it" is another bit of nonsensical noise. As supplies ramp up and we have to return to some semblance of normal society, masks will not only be seen prevalently, they'll be encouraged as one mechanism of controlling spread. And at the time it'll be interesting how all of the propagandists change their tune. [1] Excluding the evidence in front of our eyes where countries where mask use is prevalent are seeing little spread.

tomp 7y ago

Can you explain how improper use of masks can make things worse?

monkeywork 7y ago
false sense of security - gives the person the impression they are protected and allows them to lower their guard in other area's that they might now if they weren't wearing it. edit To put it in tech terms ... someone poorly implementing a security / encryption method may be more dangerous than someone who didn't because the person who didn't may take additional steps that the person who falsely thinks they are protected wouldn't.
- tomp 7y ago
  Couldn't you say the same thing about every non-100%-certain method of protection?
  - monkeywork 7y ago
    The conversation was about using the protection incorrectly - and yes you could likely say the same thing about any method of protection that is being used incorrectly. Airbags are great - shouldn't put one in front a baby. Sunscreen is fantastic - assuming it's not expired. etc etc.
- pmachinery 7y ago
  > false sense of security - gives the person the impression they are protected and allows them to lower their guard in other area's that they might now if they weren't wearing it. Using this argument bullet poof vests and helmets "make things worse". In my experience a mask is a conspicuous reminder of an unusual/dangerous situation - that I would definitely forget about at certain times if I was not wearing a mask - and to be constantly on my guard.
  - monkeywork 7y ago
    I've seen and heard from people who think social distancing doesn't apply to them if they are wearing a mask... hell there are people who don't think social distancing applies if they are indoors. edit Also people who are using bullet proof vests / helmets are generally TRAINED on how to use them, thus know the limits.

m4rtink 7y ago

As long as everyone in public wears a mask, it's not really important how good it is as long as it covers the mounth and the nose. This is because you basically switch from protecting the wearer to protecting other from infected asymptomatic wearer. In such a case even a simple home made mask does wonders in preventing infected droplets contaminating a wide area around the wearer, not to mention the benefit of reducing hand based contamination due to not being able to touch your mouth and nose. Due to this the Czech government introduced mandatory mask wearing (including self made) in public - if you don't wear one, the police will first warn you and then you get a hefty fine if you still don't comply. Also Slovakia (a neighboring country) just introduced the same. As for protecting medical personel - yep they definitely need the best protective equipment tjey can get, to prevent even more of them getting infected (there have already been cases for medical personel, police & firefighters). For that reason an "air bridge" has been established that regularly airlifts PPE from china, even including one of the NATO leased gigantic AN-124s. That way both regular people are protected (from infecting each other) and first line responders as well (by proper air lifted PPE). Foe this reason ot feels worrying or almost sad to see the reaction in te UK and USA slowly waking up to the seriousness of the whole situation. - we have no PPE for first line workers, but rest assured it has been ordered (unless its in plane and in the air now, it's too late, should have been done weeks ago) - not enough beds/ventilators (should have cleared hospitals of elective surgeries and non acute cases) - cant tell people to wear masks as there are none (tell them to make some or face a fine) - people still congregating in bars and restaurants (you should have closed those long ago) - with schools and day care closed first line responders have nowhere to put their children (keep some vare centers open to care of children of critical workers) - people are not respecting our guidance (well, then it should not be a guidance but punishable emergency state ordnance) Hopefully others can get up to speed quickly before it is too late. The local emergency measures in Czech Republichave been pretty strict, but so far (and I really hope not to jinx it) seem to be working. Arround 1200 infected so far with smaller Neighboring Austria havig 5 thousand. Still two people died... But at lest the people on ventilators are still in the tens.