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We need to let Japan know that this is not their fault. It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. They might thin

We need to let Japan know that this is not their fault. It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. They might think if they had put extra 120% effort, the Olympics would have gone as scheduled. But this is not on them. Although it's only speculation, we wouldn't want another case of heartbreaking suicide[0] because of a Japanese blaming himself/herself too much. [0] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/japan-confirms-three-more-citizens-evacuated-from-wuhan-test-positive-for-coronavirus https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/japan-confirms-t...

draw_down 7y ago
I agree no one should kill themselves as a result of this. If a social condition were to force someone to that point, perhaps the social condition could be questioned.
thieving_magpie 7y ago
That's sad but what does "let Japan know that this is not their fault" even mean?
- minitoar 7y ago
  As a global community we should come to and express the (IMO) correct conclusion that Japan did an amazing (perhaps the best) job of containing this, and it was still the right thing for them to postpone the 2020 olympics.
  - jakeinspace 7y ago
    My understanding is that Japan didn't do the best job, although definitely better than the US. Taiwan probably has had the best Coronavirus response.
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      Doesn't Japan have a much higher case fatality rate than the US?
      - jakeinspace 7y ago
        They also have a much older population. Maybe saying that they had a "much better" response than the US is too generous, certainly compared to their neighbors of similar means, Japan has been incredibly slow to act and test.
        tooltalk 7y ago
        > ... Japan has been incredibly slow to act and test. and it seems the Japanese public is quite angry over Abe's willful neglect to save the Olympics. Now that the Olympics is off the table (ie, postponed), Japan can stop pretending that everything is all sunshine and sunflower.
    - tooltalk 7y ago
      Not sure if Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam had to do much to prevent it in the first place. Their warmer climate seems to have slowed the spread. South Korea's initial response was actually slow -- didn't restrict travel from China like many others did. The president declared a premature victory ("it would be over soon") and donated 2M face masks to China -- only to find the country in masks shortage the very following week. But their innovative testing efficiency (eg, drive-through, booth) and containment strategy set a good example for the world.
  - pletsch 7y ago
    They're adults, they can see that the world is dealing with something significantly more important than the Olympics.
  - bedhead 7y ago
    Yeah sorry I think we have more important things to do right now.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Legogris 7y ago
    The short answer is, we don't know. There just isn't data to tell. That being said, not that much testing has been made. The culture doesn't promote not downplaying or hiding your symptoms. Past couple of weeks, people have been relaxing. Cherry trees are in full bloom and so are the park gatherings. At the airport there are fingerprint scanners at the passport control - no way to sanitize your hands until after luggage unless you brought hand sanitizer. I could go on. Tokyo's governor just mentioned the possibility of a Europe/China style lockdown: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tokyo-idUSKBN21A18S https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tokyo-... Tokyo just picked up the rate significantly: https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000612031.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000612031.pdf CDC just raised Japan's alert rate: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-japan https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-jap... Internally, there are recommendations, and not much more. Bars and clubs are still going. Many offices are business as usual, apart from not demanding everyone in at 8:40 sharp to spread out commutes a bit more. Many of those expect to be able to return to that by April. (Just anecdata, my girlfriend happens to work at one such company) Golden Week is coming up. For those who don't know, generally in Japan people only have around 10 holidays - but on the other hand there are a lot of holidays. It just so happens that in may several of those fall together and it's the one week every year where everyone goes traveling (there is also New Year's which is more focused on family). I am not optimistic.
- libria 7y ago
  Use Twitter; Japan's PM has an account. > @AbeShinzo, it ain't yer fault bro #tokyo2021 - @thieving_magpie
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    @AbeShinzoニキ、お前のせいじゃねぇぞ
BurningCycles 7y ago
Very anectdotal, but the three Japanese persons I know have told me that people in Japan are generally negative towards holding an Olympics and think it's just a waste of resources.
- jasonv 7y ago
  This is a very common "populist" view when the Olympics are held locally... true here in the US when the Olympics were in LA and Atlanta.
  - magduf 7y ago
    In my opinion, it's rational (which surprises me that it would be "populist" since populist thinking is rarely rational). The Olympics really are a terrible waste of effort and resources for the host nation, and the host nation rarely, if ever, gets a positive return on it. Mostly, it seems only to serve to increase the prestige of some head-of-state, nothing more. In reality, it costs an enormous amount of money to build facilities that are only used once and then go to waste. The world would be better off designating two separate, permanent Olympics facilities, one for summer and one for winter, and just reusing those every 4 years.
    - trianglem 7y ago
      The final goal of ever endeavor is not always profits.
      - jasonv 7y ago
        Extraordinary public funding that goes through a narrow "takings" funnel may be a high price to pay for the "not always profits" outcome of an Olympics though.
      - triceratops 7y ago
        Yet funnily the IOC, broadcasters, various contractors who build the stadiums, the travel and hotel industry...all seem to profit.
claudiawerner 7y ago
>We need to let Japan know that this is not their fault. It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. I can't help but think this is such a bizarre take. "Japan" and the Japanese people aren't children. We don't need to reassure "them" of anything, as if their culture collectively precludes them of realizing that the Coronavirus isn't "their fault". As if they're too naive and caught up in same bushido notion of honor and dignity. A quick few moments on Japanese Twitter around news of the virus will show the intense xenophobia[0][1], with highly liked/retweeted posts directed almost entirely at Koreans and Chinese people, and praising Trump calling it the "Chinese virus". I know Twitter isn't representative of the Japanese population, but I'm highly skeptical of the idea that "Japan" is down in the dumps, thinking they only could have done better for the olympics. From what I can gather, a large chunk of the Japanese population didn't want the olympics anyway. [0] From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobi... [1] A quick search of the trending tag "#ChineseDontComeToJapan" and the corresponding Japanese-language tag "#中国人は日本に来るな" and related posts (example of a popular anti-Chinese people post: https://twitter.com/mobirufosugang2/status/1239179922494480384 https://twitter.com/mobirufosugang2/status/12391799224944803... - other posts in the thread emphasize the beauty of Kyoto without "Chinese and Koreans")
- taiwanboy 7y ago
  I think there is nothing wrong with calling the virus ‘Chinese virus’ when a.) the virus came from China. b.) the Chinese government proactively hid the details of the coronavirus to the world until it couldn’t anymore (since it started infecting other countries https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/17/china-cared-more-about-suppressing-information-than-suppressing-virus-thats-why-were-here/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/17/china-car... c.) actively trying to pin the origin of the virus on other countries like Italy https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fo5lrq/italian_scientist_remuzzi_replies_to_ccps/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fo5lrq/italian_s... and US
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
chingchong 7y ago
Japan did a terrible job of containing this, the government did nothing but bury its head in the sand and hope it'll all go away. It's China's fault this happened, as usual, first it's bird flu, then swine flu, now this, they need to get their food hygiene standards sorted out.
malandrew 7y ago
It’s very clearly the CCP’s fault. This is basically the CCP’s Chernobyl moment (Note: I said CCP not China. The Chinese people are also very much victims of the CCP’s culture of suppression of information here. Wuhan never should have suffered as much as it did).
NikolaeVarius 7y ago
Infantilizing an entire country. This is an interesting take on the state of things.
- mratsim 7y ago
  That's not infantilizing. Asian countries have a very ingrained sense of "face" and honor. Face in China and honor in Japan are very very important.
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
    It is infantilizing when we say that the concept of saving face prevents them from seeing the results of their actions, and that they need to be "reassured" by the global community that things aren't as bad as they think - "if only they could see past saving face".
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  It seems to be the final degeneration in Orientalism[0] not only to say that the Japanese aren't aware of their responsibility, but to say they need to be given a pat on the back and reassured, like you would a child. [0] Orientalist thinking is not necessarily racist; I'm saying this now before someone accuses me of accusing GP of being a racist.
yongjik 7y ago
> It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. This just sounds like reverse Orientalism. Japanese culture might have a bigger emphasis on civic duties, but on a national level it's clearly a hit and miss: consider that WW2 apologists are still popular in some sector of Japan. (And I'm not trying to blame Japan here, I mean, most countries aren't much better.)

draw_down 7y ago

I agree no one should kill themselves as a result of this. If a social condition were to force someone to that point, perhaps the social condition could be questioned.

thieving_magpie 7y ago

That's sad but what does "let Japan know that this is not their fault" even mean?

minitoar 7y ago
As a global community we should come to and express the (IMO) correct conclusion that Japan did an amazing (perhaps the best) job of containing this, and it was still the right thing for them to postpone the 2020 olympics.
- jakeinspace 7y ago
  My understanding is that Japan didn't do the best job, although definitely better than the US. Taiwan probably has had the best Coronavirus response.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    Doesn't Japan have a much higher case fatality rate than the US?
    - jakeinspace 7y ago
      They also have a much older population. Maybe saying that they had a "much better" response than the US is too generous, certainly compared to their neighbors of similar means, Japan has been incredibly slow to act and test.
      - tooltalk 7y ago
        > ... Japan has been incredibly slow to act and test. and it seems the Japanese public is quite angry over Abe's willful neglect to save the Olympics. Now that the Olympics is off the table (ie, postponed), Japan can stop pretending that everything is all sunshine and sunflower.
  - tooltalk 7y ago
    Not sure if Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam had to do much to prevent it in the first place. Their warmer climate seems to have slowed the spread. South Korea's initial response was actually slow -- didn't restrict travel from China like many others did. The president declared a premature victory ("it would be over soon") and donated 2M face masks to China -- only to find the country in masks shortage the very following week. But their innovative testing efficiency (eg, drive-through, booth) and containment strategy set a good example for the world.
- pletsch 7y ago
  They're adults, they can see that the world is dealing with something significantly more important than the Olympics.
- bedhead 7y ago
  Yeah sorry I think we have more important things to do right now.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Legogris 7y ago
  The short answer is, we don't know. There just isn't data to tell. That being said, not that much testing has been made. The culture doesn't promote not downplaying or hiding your symptoms. Past couple of weeks, people have been relaxing. Cherry trees are in full bloom and so are the park gatherings. At the airport there are fingerprint scanners at the passport control - no way to sanitize your hands until after luggage unless you brought hand sanitizer. I could go on. Tokyo's governor just mentioned the possibility of a Europe/China style lockdown: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tokyo-idUSKBN21A18S https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tokyo-... Tokyo just picked up the rate significantly: https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000612031.pdf https://www.mhlw.go.jp/content/10900000/000612031.pdf CDC just raised Japan's alert rate: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-japan https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/warning/coronavirus-jap... Internally, there are recommendations, and not much more. Bars and clubs are still going. Many offices are business as usual, apart from not demanding everyone in at 8:40 sharp to spread out commutes a bit more. Many of those expect to be able to return to that by April. (Just anecdata, my girlfriend happens to work at one such company) Golden Week is coming up. For those who don't know, generally in Japan people only have around 10 holidays - but on the other hand there are a lot of holidays. It just so happens that in may several of those fall together and it's the one week every year where everyone goes traveling (there is also New Year's which is more focused on family). I am not optimistic.
libria 7y ago
Use Twitter; Japan's PM has an account. > @AbeShinzo, it ain't yer fault bro #tokyo2021 - @thieving_magpie
- Hamuko 7y ago
  @AbeShinzoニキ、お前のせいじゃねぇぞ

BurningCycles 7y ago

Very anectdotal, but the three Japanese persons I know have told me that people in Japan are generally negative towards holding an Olympics and think it's just a waste of resources.

jasonv 7y ago
This is a very common "populist" view when the Olympics are held locally... true here in the US when the Olympics were in LA and Atlanta.
- magduf 7y ago
  In my opinion, it's rational (which surprises me that it would be "populist" since populist thinking is rarely rational). The Olympics really are a terrible waste of effort and resources for the host nation, and the host nation rarely, if ever, gets a positive return on it. Mostly, it seems only to serve to increase the prestige of some head-of-state, nothing more. In reality, it costs an enormous amount of money to build facilities that are only used once and then go to waste. The world would be better off designating two separate, permanent Olympics facilities, one for summer and one for winter, and just reusing those every 4 years.
  - trianglem 7y ago
    The final goal of ever endeavor is not always profits.
    - jasonv 7y ago
      Extraordinary public funding that goes through a narrow "takings" funnel may be a high price to pay for the "not always profits" outcome of an Olympics though.
    - triceratops 7y ago
      Yet funnily the IOC, broadcasters, various contractors who build the stadiums, the travel and hotel industry...all seem to profit.

claudiawerner 7y ago

>We need to let Japan know that this is not their fault. It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. I can't help but think this is such a bizarre take. "Japan" and the Japanese people aren't children. We don't need to reassure "them" of anything, as if their culture collectively precludes them of realizing that the Coronavirus isn't "their fault". As if they're too naive and caught up in same bushido notion of honor and dignity. A quick few moments on Japanese Twitter around news of the virus will show the intense xenophobia[0][1], with highly liked/retweeted posts directed almost entirely at Koreans and Chinese people, and praising Trump calling it the "Chinese virus". I know Twitter isn't representative of the Japanese population, but I'm highly skeptical of the idea that "Japan" is down in the dumps, thinking they only could have done better for the olympics. From what I can gather, a large chunk of the Japanese population didn't want the olympics anyway. [0] From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobia_and_racism_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic#Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_xenophobi... [1] A quick search of the trending tag "#ChineseDontComeToJapan" and the corresponding Japanese-language tag "#中国人は日本に来るな" and related posts (example of a popular anti-Chinese people post: https://twitter.com/mobirufosugang2/status/1239179922494480384 https://twitter.com/mobirufosugang2/status/12391799224944803... - other posts in the thread emphasize the beauty of Kyoto without "Chinese and Koreans")

taiwanboy 7y ago
I think there is nothing wrong with calling the virus ‘Chinese virus’ when a.) the virus came from China. b.) the Chinese government proactively hid the details of the coronavirus to the world until it couldn’t anymore (since it started infecting other countries https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/17/china-cared-more-about-suppressing-information-than-suppressing-virus-thats-why-were-here/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/17/china-car... c.) actively trying to pin the origin of the virus on other countries like Italy https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fo5lrq/italian_scientist_remuzzi_replies_to_ccps/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/fo5lrq/italian_s... and US
- claudiawerner 7y ago

chingchong 7y ago

Japan did a terrible job of containing this, the government did nothing but bury its head in the sand and hope it'll all go away. It's China's fault this happened, as usual, first it's bird flu, then swine flu, now this, they need to get their food hygiene standards sorted out.

malandrew 7y ago

It’s very clearly the CCP’s fault. This is basically the CCP’s Chernobyl moment (Note: I said CCP not China. The Chinese people are also very much victims of the CCP’s culture of suppression of information here. Wuhan never should have suffered as much as it did).

NikolaeVarius 7y ago

Infantilizing an entire country. This is an interesting take on the state of things.

mratsim 7y ago
That's not infantilizing. Asian countries have a very ingrained sense of "face" and honor. Face in China and honor in Japan are very very important.
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  It is infantilizing when we say that the concept of saving face prevents them from seeing the results of their actions, and that they need to be "reassured" by the global community that things aren't as bad as they think - "if only they could see past saving face".
claudiawerner 7y ago
It seems to be the final degeneration in Orientalism[0] not only to say that the Japanese aren't aware of their responsibility, but to say they need to be given a pat on the back and reassured, like you would a child. [0] Orientalist thinking is not necessarily racist; I'm saying this now before someone accuses me of accusing GP of being a racist.

yongjik 7y ago

> It's ingrained in Japanese culture that they often put too much pressure on themselves. This just sounds like reverse Orientalism. Japanese culture might have a bigger emphasis on civic duties, but on a national level it's clearly a hit and miss: consider that WW2 apologists are still popular in some sector of Japan. (And I'm not trying to blame Japan here, I mean, most countries aren't much better.)