5 ms·

The value traditional publishing adds is a variety of professional staff (editor, copyeditor, designers, etc), potentially fronting advance money to cover costs

The value traditional publishing adds is a variety of professional staff (editor, copyeditor, designers, etc), potentially fronting advance money to cover costs for writers to devote full time to writing, and to some extent as a filtering mechanism (you know a published book usually isn't going to have egregious spelling/typesetting errors that make it unreadable). That's legitimately valuable, but the quotes by Konrath in the article are spot-on: If you don't need the full traditional staff to put out a good product and don't need the advance money, traditional publishing becomes less and less useful to you. I'm a little more optimistic about the traditional model than most people are - I think with some basic adjustments and modernizations, they've got another pretty good 10-30 years in them doing things similar to how they're done now. But it's definitely more viable than ever to go outside the model, especially for people able to put out a polished product without help.

patio11 16y ago
The professional staff is dirt cheap and already almost 100% outsourced by the publishers. That's a barrier like not having Photoshop skills is a barrier to selling on the Internet: pay somebody money, problem solved.
- lionhearted 16y ago
  Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book. Considering most books don't sell well, the first time writer takes a significant risk eating those costs. Some people can write/polish well enough without those roles, and they stand to gain a lot from the new models. But it'll be a while before traditional publishing is no more. Actually, the biggest worry they should have is that bestselling authors go off on their own after one or two wins, like how Seth Godin just announced he's not doing any traditional publishing any more. That's got to be a little scary for the industry.
  - chc 16y ago
    If your book is likely to make less than four figures, a publisher isn't even going to give you the time of day.
  - true_religion 16y ago
    > Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book. Considering most books don't sell well, the first time writer takes a significant risk eating those costs. If you're an author, your first book is like a startup. You have to either beg your friends and family to do copy-editing for you, do a lot of it yourself, or somehow raise funds to get a pro copy-editor.
  - wglb 16y ago
    Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book Do you have evidence that outsourcing this will actually cost that?
- GavinB 16y ago
  The most important staff on the book is the editor. None of the major publishing houses outsource their editors. What is outsourced is a few additional reads for copyediting of spelling, grammar, and usage. An editor will make an author take a book through several drafts, and often have the author make major cuts and additions. A good editor will force the author to make the small changes that make a book have a compelling emotional arc. The difference between "moving" and "flat" is often just a few sentences. A good editor actually has the power to demand a better performance out of the author--like a good coach on a sports team. "Pay somebody money, problem solved." Is this like programming? I need someone to build a web app, so I just pay somebody money, problem solved? I'm not trying to say that the publishing industry isn't going to undergo big changes, but your comment seems to me dismissive of a profession requiring dedication and creativity.
  - shadowsun7 16y ago
    Gavin: there are editors for hire, and have been for sometime now, as organizations outside the publishing houses. And I expect more (freelance editors) to come when they realize that the balance of power is shifting to favour the author.
    - GavinB 16y ago
      Absolutely. Heck, if you know the right people, you can even freelance hire the same editors who are working at major houses right now. (Side note: if anyone at HN wants that, I'd be happy to make the introductions.) My only point is that the editorial process is important and finding a good editor just as difficult as finding a good designer or programmer. It's not a problem you just throw money at. For this purpose you could even argue that going freelance is better because you get to choose your editor and have control over choosing a new one if that person leaves the profession or isn't any good.
runevault 16y ago
I've read books from major publishers that had enough grammar/spelling issues to bug the hell out of me, and just because it's NY published actually isn't as much of a guarantee as it should be, if your preferred genre gets popular, because if they decide they need x books of y genre/month, but they are only getting z (some number smaller than x) they have been known to lower their standards to fill the supposed market need. Of course that is part of why bubbles in publishing pop so hard, people get burned out on the crap put out to "fill the need"
wglb 16y ago
But the thing that the traditional publishers won't be able to counter is pointed out in Konrath's recent blog post about time is money: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/02/time-is-money.html http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/02/time-is-money.html. And until I actually investigated it, I wouldn't claim that editing and such takes a four-figure outlay. I would defer to patio11 there.

patio11 16y ago

The professional staff is dirt cheap and already almost 100% outsourced by the publishers. That's a barrier like not having Photoshop skills is a barrier to selling on the Internet: pay somebody money, problem solved.

lionhearted 16y ago
Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book. Considering most books don't sell well, the first time writer takes a significant risk eating those costs. Some people can write/polish well enough without those roles, and they stand to gain a lot from the new models. But it'll be a while before traditional publishing is no more. Actually, the biggest worry they should have is that bestselling authors go off on their own after one or two wins, like how Seth Godin just announced he's not doing any traditional publishing any more. That's got to be a little scary for the industry.
- chc 16y ago
  If your book is likely to make less than four figures, a publisher isn't even going to give you the time of day.
- true_religion 16y ago
  > Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book. Considering most books don't sell well, the first time writer takes a significant risk eating those costs. If you're an author, your first book is like a startup. You have to either beg your friends and family to do copy-editing for you, do a lot of it yourself, or somehow raise funds to get a pro copy-editor.
- wglb 16y ago
  Hiring a professional editor and copy-editor is probably going to run you four-figures for a feature length book Do you have evidence that outsourcing this will actually cost that?
GavinB 16y ago
The most important staff on the book is the editor. None of the major publishing houses outsource their editors. What is outsourced is a few additional reads for copyediting of spelling, grammar, and usage. An editor will make an author take a book through several drafts, and often have the author make major cuts and additions. A good editor will force the author to make the small changes that make a book have a compelling emotional arc. The difference between "moving" and "flat" is often just a few sentences. A good editor actually has the power to demand a better performance out of the author--like a good coach on a sports team. "Pay somebody money, problem solved." Is this like programming? I need someone to build a web app, so I just pay somebody money, problem solved? I'm not trying to say that the publishing industry isn't going to undergo big changes, but your comment seems to me dismissive of a profession requiring dedication and creativity.
- shadowsun7 16y ago
  Gavin: there are editors for hire, and have been for sometime now, as organizations outside the publishing houses. And I expect more (freelance editors) to come when they realize that the balance of power is shifting to favour the author.
  - GavinB 16y ago
    Absolutely. Heck, if you know the right people, you can even freelance hire the same editors who are working at major houses right now. (Side note: if anyone at HN wants that, I'd be happy to make the introductions.) My only point is that the editorial process is important and finding a good editor just as difficult as finding a good designer or programmer. It's not a problem you just throw money at. For this purpose you could even argue that going freelance is better because you get to choose your editor and have control over choosing a new one if that person leaves the profession or isn't any good.

runevault 16y ago

I've read books from major publishers that had enough grammar/spelling issues to bug the hell out of me, and just because it's NY published actually isn't as much of a guarantee as it should be, if your preferred genre gets popular, because if they decide they need x books of y genre/month, but they are only getting z (some number smaller than x) they have been known to lower their standards to fill the supposed market need. Of course that is part of why bubbles in publishing pop so hard, people get burned out on the crap put out to "fill the need"

wglb 16y ago

But the thing that the traditional publishers won't be able to counter is pointed out in Konrath's recent blog post about time is money: http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/02/time-is-money.html http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2011/02/time-is-money.html. And until I actually investigated it, I wouldn't claim that editing and such takes a four-figure outlay. I would defer to patio11 there.