4 ms·

didnt find a link to the abstract, seems the results are just being published link to the trial on clinicaltrials.gov is here: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/s

didnt find a link to the abstract, seems the results are just being published link to the trial on clinicaltrials.gov is here: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04261517 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04261517 patients in both tx and control arm fared better than in the french study from earlier this week, suggesting patients were healthier / lower risk at baseline patients got slightly lower dose in this study (400 mg / day) vs the french study (600 mg / day)

hartator 7y ago
Kind of crazy these are not in the open. Especially when we are used to work in software.
- aaavl2821 7y ago
  It may be that they just presented an abstract and the manuscript has not yet been submitted for publication or peer reviewed
  - hartator 7y ago
    Well let's peer review this wikipedia-style. Not sure why academia is stuck in last century.
    - aaavl2821 7y ago
      scientists have increasingly been doing this during covid by publishing on biorxiv and then discussing on other channels (twitter etc) for ex, this paper [0] by UCSF analyzing 26 of the 29 viral proteins expressed by the virus was posted on biorxiv and publicized further via twitter [1]. they identified 69 FDA approved drugs that target these proteins, giving the medical and scientific community a massive head start on studying drugs that could potentially be near-term treatments there are some parts of academic science that are stuck in the last century but scientists themselves are certainly not for those interested in learning more about how science works and how scientists operate, the covid situation is a great way to see how its done. modern science is amazing [0] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.002386v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.002386v1 [1] https://twitter.com/kevansf/status/1241936588164063233 https://twitter.com/kevansf/status/1241936588164063233
      - raphlinus 7y ago
        Yeah, I'm following a bunch of scientists on Twitter and have been watching from the sidelines with awe and admiration. The contrast to the seeming hordes of dumbfucks could hardly be more remarkable; sometimes it's hard to keep in mind the same platform is host to both sets of people.
        godzulu 7y ago
        This Doctor in NY seems to have had great results so far https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-vladimir-zelenko-finds-100-success-rate-in-350-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-with-z-paks-video/ https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-... This Doctor, Health Commissioner of NYC, Oxiris Barbot, seemed to take a lot of joy in proclaiming: Today our city is celebrating the #LunarNewYear parade in Chinatown, a beautiful cultural tradition with a rich history in our city. I want to remind everyone to enjoy the parade and not change any plans due to misinformation spreading about #coronavirus. https://on.nyc.gov/377LlcH https://on.nyc.gov/377LlcH https://t.co/bwCnIb7j8H https://t.co/bwCnIb7j8H Which Dr deserves awe and admiration and which brings with the seeming hordes of dumbfucks? https://www.amny.com/editorial/city-leaders-seek-to-allay-fears-of-coronavirus-in-chinatown/ https://www.amny.com/editorial/city-leaders-seek-to-allay-fe...
        arcticbull 7y ago
        > This Doctor in NY seems to have had great results so far https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-.. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-.... Let's stick with legitimate news sources. Either way no data is provided there, but the case fatality rate for folks under 10 is 0% and under 29 is between 0.1% and 0%. If this hypothetical doctor even exists, it wouldn't be hard to pick 350 people, give them some HCQ and Azithromycin and have 100% of them recover -- as they would have even if they hadn't received anything. That's more or less what this study shows. In fact, as the fatality rate for under-29s is 0.1%, you have a 70% ((1-0.001)^12) chance that any randomly selected 350 of them will recover.
        raphlinus 7y ago
    - im3w1l 7y ago
      Wikipedia style is unreliable. I'm aware of quite a few errors. Why I don't fix them then? Because my edits would be reverted. Or because the page has been locked. Academic literature in contrast, has multiple parallel journals. If one is suppressing you, you can go to the next. Of course if you go to a less reliable one, then people might not trust your research.
raphlinus 7y ago
Someone on the Twitter thread linked to this, which seems to be not exactly the same document but contains very similar text in the abstract: http://subject.med.wanfangdata.com.cn/UpLoad/Files/202003/43f8625d4dc74e42bbcf24795de1c77c.pdf http://subject.med.wanfangdata.com.cn/UpLoad/Files/202003/43... I think it helps if you can read Chinese, though Google Translate seems to do a pretty ok job on it.
- HarryHirsch 7y ago
  No need to read Chinese, the abstract is on page 2. Conclusion: at current trial size no better than placebo. More study is needed to tease out an effect, if there is any.
  - rurban 7y ago
    It does help if you read the translation. By now everybody should know that the successful dosis is 2x500mg per day for 10 days. Not 1x 400mg per day, which is the old dosis for Malaria prevention. This dosis needs at least 2-3 weeks to be effective (saturate the cell membranes with zinc), and by then the infection is already over. And the Chinese treatment plan contained much more. A study with zero value.
    - newsbinator 7y ago
      What's the source of this?
      - rurban 7y ago
        The official chinese treatment recommendation. https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fd28s6/preprint_article_from_the_shanghai_medical/ https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fd28s6/preprint_ar... Amongst doctors both hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate run under broadband antiviral.

hartator 7y ago

Kind of crazy these are not in the open. Especially when we are used to work in software.

aaavl2821 7y ago
It may be that they just presented an abstract and the manuscript has not yet been submitted for publication or peer reviewed
- hartator 7y ago
  Well let's peer review this wikipedia-style. Not sure why academia is stuck in last century.
  - aaavl2821 7y ago
    scientists have increasingly been doing this during covid by publishing on biorxiv and then discussing on other channels (twitter etc) for ex, this paper [0] by UCSF analyzing 26 of the 29 viral proteins expressed by the virus was posted on biorxiv and publicized further via twitter [1]. they identified 69 FDA approved drugs that target these proteins, giving the medical and scientific community a massive head start on studying drugs that could potentially be near-term treatments there are some parts of academic science that are stuck in the last century but scientists themselves are certainly not for those interested in learning more about how science works and how scientists operate, the covid situation is a great way to see how its done. modern science is amazing [0] https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.002386v1 https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.002386v1 [1] https://twitter.com/kevansf/status/1241936588164063233 https://twitter.com/kevansf/status/1241936588164063233
    - raphlinus 7y ago
      Yeah, I'm following a bunch of scientists on Twitter and have been watching from the sidelines with awe and admiration. The contrast to the seeming hordes of dumbfucks could hardly be more remarkable; sometimes it's hard to keep in mind the same platform is host to both sets of people.
      - godzulu 7y ago
        This Doctor in NY seems to have had great results so far https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-vladimir-zelenko-finds-100-success-rate-in-350-patients-using-hydroxychloroquine-with-z-paks-video/ https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-... This Doctor, Health Commissioner of NYC, Oxiris Barbot, seemed to take a lot of joy in proclaiming: Today our city is celebrating the #LunarNewYear parade in Chinatown, a beautiful cultural tradition with a rich history in our city. I want to remind everyone to enjoy the parade and not change any plans due to misinformation spreading about #coronavirus. https://on.nyc.gov/377LlcH https://on.nyc.gov/377LlcH https://t.co/bwCnIb7j8H https://t.co/bwCnIb7j8H Which Dr deserves awe and admiration and which brings with the seeming hordes of dumbfucks? https://www.amny.com/editorial/city-leaders-seek-to-allay-fears-of-coronavirus-in-chinatown/ https://www.amny.com/editorial/city-leaders-seek-to-allay-fe...
        arcticbull 7y ago
        > This Doctor in NY seems to have had great results so far https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-.. https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/03/stunning-ny-doctor-.... Let's stick with legitimate news sources. Either way no data is provided there, but the case fatality rate for folks under 10 is 0% and under 29 is between 0.1% and 0%. If this hypothetical doctor even exists, it wouldn't be hard to pick 350 people, give them some HCQ and Azithromycin and have 100% of them recover -- as they would have even if they hadn't received anything. That's more or less what this study shows. In fact, as the fatality rate for under-29s is 0.1%, you have a 70% ((1-0.001)^12) chance that any randomly selected 350 of them will recover.
        raphlinus 7y ago
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    Wikipedia style is unreliable. I'm aware of quite a few errors. Why I don't fix them then? Because my edits would be reverted. Or because the page has been locked. Academic literature in contrast, has multiple parallel journals. If one is suppressing you, you can go to the next. Of course if you go to a less reliable one, then people might not trust your research.

raphlinus 7y ago

Someone on the Twitter thread linked to this, which seems to be not exactly the same document but contains very similar text in the abstract: http://subject.med.wanfangdata.com.cn/UpLoad/Files/202003/43f8625d4dc74e42bbcf24795de1c77c.pdf http://subject.med.wanfangdata.com.cn/UpLoad/Files/202003/43... I think it helps if you can read Chinese, though Google Translate seems to do a pretty ok job on it.

HarryHirsch 7y ago
No need to read Chinese, the abstract is on page 2. Conclusion: at current trial size no better than placebo. More study is needed to tease out an effect, if there is any.
- rurban 7y ago
  It does help if you read the translation. By now everybody should know that the successful dosis is 2x500mg per day for 10 days. Not 1x 400mg per day, which is the old dosis for Malaria prevention. This dosis needs at least 2-3 weeks to be effective (saturate the cell membranes with zinc), and by then the infection is already over. And the Chinese treatment plan contained much more. A study with zero value.
  - newsbinator 7y ago
    What's the source of this?
    - rurban 7y ago
      The official chinese treatment recommendation. https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fd28s6/preprint_article_from_the_shanghai_medical/ https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fd28s6/preprint_ar... Amongst doctors both hydroxychloroquine sulfate and chloroquine phosphate run under broadband antiviral.