6 ms·

https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731 https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731

by wolfi1 7y ago

nostromo 7y ago
He said doctors can administer it under new FDA guidance. He didn't say "drink an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks." http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate I don't see why every story needs to be about him.
- whateveracct 7y ago
  This story is clearly related to Trump and would not have happened without his statements. Just because he didn't say anything 100% explicitly the cause it and may have been misinterpreted is honestly besides the point. When you are given the power of the presidency, you should either treat your public words with care of just quit forever for all our sakes. This is just how having power _works_. It's a two-way street, and the idealistic American Way. EDIT: Anyone care to explain the downvotes? This is my opinion on those gifted with power in all situations. It goes for companies as well. If you're the CEO, VPE, whatever. There should be checks to balance that gifted power. One check is a higher standard of public speaking due to your newfound influence.
  - chrisco255 7y ago
    Simple. You make a clear connection between Trump saying hydroxychloroquine has promise and they're fast-tracking FDA approval to...man consumes fish tank additive. Trump was not even the only high profile person touting it. Elon Musk, too, touts the drug. It's not even clear this man had COVID-19. How much of his actions were driven by the escalating irrational fear on news reports? How much was driven by some random internet forum somewhere making such a suggestion? What was the mental state of the man in question? Why didn't this man seek medical advice before consuming fish tank chemicals? There's a ton about just this one story to unpack, but of course it's been sensationalized as a political hit job.
- triceratops 7y ago
  The FDA has not approved it for COVID-19.
  - redis_mlc 7y ago
    Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - triceratops 7y ago
      It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so." Like I could go and say "The FDA has approved Rogaine." It's true, but it's a useless statement in the context of Covid-19.
    - marzell 7y ago
      Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.
      - AstralStorm 7y ago
        Likely much safer than taking aquarium cleaner, presuming correct dosage. These things tend to be chemically pure.
- drodgers 7y ago
  And as we know, the exact wording of Trump's statements is of critical importance to how his supporters interpret them.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. Surely you've noticed that some folk take the President's public statements at face value.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- mindslight 7y ago
  > I don't see why every story needs to be about him. He's literally the President. If he didn't want the spotlight on him, he shouldn't have run. If he doesn't want a negative spotlight on him, he should stop confidently proclaiming bullshit that requires nuanced correction to not be actively harmful. It didn't really matter when the topics were just partisan squabbling, as nothing was going to get done anyway. But we're now facing a shared crisis and yet he keeps at the same disruptive boasting. It's inexcusable.
Orcus90482 7y ago
A quick skim of the article does not show any quote stating you should self medicate. There are quotes misrepresenting which stage of approval it is in.
- mattkrause 7y ago
  Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant. I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.
  - ummonk 7y ago
    I.e. even if the drug is ineffective, at least we know it doesn't have fatal side effects, because it has already been used widely and approved for malaria treatment after going through safety trials a long while ago. This is in contrast to experimental drugs, which don't just have questionable efficacy, but also unknown safety. It goes without saying that like all prescription drugs which have been proven safe, chloroquine should only be taken when prescribed by a doctor, at the recommended dosage. Obviously if you self-medicate with any safe prescription drug, you risk harming yourself by overdosing.
    - mattkrause 7y ago
      I realize that's probably what he (or realistically, whoever told him that) meant, but that's not at all what he said. He's talking to a broad, panicked audience and anyone doing so ought to choose their words carefully. Something like "Great news is that we've already had safety data for this stuff, so we're going straight to efficacy trials!" would convey plenty of optimism without encouraging yahoos to do dumb things.
    - anigbrowl 7y ago
      It doesn't really go without saying. Otherwise pharmaceutical advertising wouldn't need copious safety warnings in every single commercial. I don't think it's a good idea to take the President's happy talk at face value, but then I also didn't think it was ever a good idea to spend money on Trump University, or donating to Trump charities; on the other hand, enough people did that the matters ended up in court and the two branded entities mentioned above were both found to be liable for misinforming their customers/donors. There are a lot of stupid folk among the public, and it is to them that scam artists like Jim Bakker or Alex Jones market quack cures. There's an appetite for quack cures because they seem affordable relative to the often-inaccessible costs of basic medical treatment, because we don't have a universal public health system in the USA. The sad fact is that people sell snake oil because there are fat profits to be made by doing so, even though most of us recognize such products as little better than placebos at best or dangerous at worst. This is why we have product regulation, credentialing and so on; it's hard for people to personally assess the quality of every product or service and there are unscrupulous people who are willing to exploit that difficulty.
AmericanChopper 7y ago
The article says Trump instructed the FDA to clinically trial it, and describes the conditions under which a doctor can currently prescribe it. What exactly are you claiming is irresponsible about this?
LocalH 7y ago
That link has absolutely nothing to do with whether Trump "recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine"

https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731 https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731

by wolfi1 7y ago

https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731 https://www.bbc.com/news/51980731

He said doctors can administer it under new FDA guidance. He didn't say "drink an additive commonly used at aquariums to clean fish tanks." http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/chloroquinephosphate I don't see why every story needs to be about him.

whateveracct 7y ago
This story is clearly related to Trump and would not have happened without his statements. Just because he didn't say anything 100% explicitly the cause it and may have been misinterpreted is honestly besides the point. When you are given the power of the presidency, you should either treat your public words with care of just quit forever for all our sakes. This is just how having power _works_. It's a two-way street, and the idealistic American Way. EDIT: Anyone care to explain the downvotes? This is my opinion on those gifted with power in all situations. It goes for companies as well. If you're the CEO, VPE, whatever. There should be checks to balance that gifted power. One check is a higher standard of public speaking due to your newfound influence.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  Simple. You make a clear connection between Trump saying hydroxychloroquine has promise and they're fast-tracking FDA approval to...man consumes fish tank additive. Trump was not even the only high profile person touting it. Elon Musk, too, touts the drug. It's not even clear this man had COVID-19. How much of his actions were driven by the escalating irrational fear on news reports? How much was driven by some random internet forum somewhere making such a suggestion? What was the mental state of the man in question? Why didn't this man seek medical advice before consuming fish tank chemicals? There's a ton about just this one story to unpack, but of course it's been sensationalized as a political hit job.
triceratops 7y ago
The FDA has not approved it for COVID-19.
- redis_mlc 7y ago
  Not sure if that's relevant. Once a drug is approved by the FDA for one disease, it can be used off-label for other purposes.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - triceratops 7y ago
    It absolutely is relevant. A layperson will hear "chloroquine works on Covid-19. The FDA's approved it. The President himself said so." Like I could go and say "The FDA has approved Rogaine." It's true, but it's a useless statement in the context of Covid-19.
  - marzell 7y ago
    Iodine is approved for treating exposure to radiation. That doesn't mean it's OK to start drinking from a bottle of industrial-use iodine that isn't made for human consumption.
    - AstralStorm 7y ago
      Likely much safer than taking aquarium cleaner, presuming correct dosage. These things tend to be chemically pure.
drodgers 7y ago
And as we know, the exact wording of Trump's statements is of critical importance to how his supporters interpret them.
anigbrowl 7y ago
But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody. Surely you've noticed that some folk take the President's public statements at face value.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
mindslight 7y ago
> I don't see why every story needs to be about him. He's literally the President. If he didn't want the spotlight on him, he shouldn't have run. If he doesn't want a negative spotlight on him, he should stop confidently proclaiming bullshit that requires nuanced correction to not be actively harmful. It didn't really matter when the topics were just partisan squabbling, as nothing was going to get done anyway. But we're now facing a shared crisis and yet he keeps at the same disruptive boasting. It's inexcusable.

Orcus90482 7y ago

A quick skim of the article does not show any quote stating you should self medicate. There are quotes misrepresenting which stage of approval it is in.

mattkrause 7y ago
Verbatim quote from the President: "if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody." Edit: Yes, I realize what he probably meant. I know how meds work. I still think he should have chosen his wording more carefully.
- ummonk 7y ago
  I.e. even if the drug is ineffective, at least we know it doesn't have fatal side effects, because it has already been used widely and approved for malaria treatment after going through safety trials a long while ago. This is in contrast to experimental drugs, which don't just have questionable efficacy, but also unknown safety. It goes without saying that like all prescription drugs which have been proven safe, chloroquine should only be taken when prescribed by a doctor, at the recommended dosage. Obviously if you self-medicate with any safe prescription drug, you risk harming yourself by overdosing.
  - mattkrause 7y ago
    I realize that's probably what he (or realistically, whoever told him that) meant, but that's not at all what he said. He's talking to a broad, panicked audience and anyone doing so ought to choose their words carefully. Something like "Great news is that we've already had safety data for this stuff, so we're going straight to efficacy trials!" would convey plenty of optimism without encouraging yahoos to do dumb things.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    It doesn't really go without saying. Otherwise pharmaceutical advertising wouldn't need copious safety warnings in every single commercial. I don't think it's a good idea to take the President's happy talk at face value, but then I also didn't think it was ever a good idea to spend money on Trump University, or donating to Trump charities; on the other hand, enough people did that the matters ended up in court and the two branded entities mentioned above were both found to be liable for misinforming their customers/donors. There are a lot of stupid folk among the public, and it is to them that scam artists like Jim Bakker or Alex Jones market quack cures. There's an appetite for quack cures because they seem affordable relative to the often-inaccessible costs of basic medical treatment, because we don't have a universal public health system in the USA. The sad fact is that people sell snake oil because there are fat profits to be made by doing so, even though most of us recognize such products as little better than placebos at best or dangerous at worst. This is why we have product regulation, credentialing and so on; it's hard for people to personally assess the quality of every product or service and there are unscrupulous people who are willing to exploit that difficulty.

AmericanChopper 7y ago

The article says Trump instructed the FDA to clinically trial it, and describes the conditions under which a doctor can currently prescribe it. What exactly are you claiming is irresponsible about this?

LocalH 7y ago

That link has absolutely nothing to do with whether Trump "recommends that the public obtain and self medicate with chloroquine"