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Singapore's doing contact tracing without any location data, and with contact between devices encrypted until needed for a contact disclosure. Seems like a bett

Singapore's doing contact tracing without any location data, and with contact between devices encrypted until needed for a contact disclosure. Seems like a better approach to me: https://www.mobihealthnews.com/news/asia-pacific/singapore-government-launches-new-app-contact-tracing-combat-spread-covid-19 https://www.mobihealthnews.com/news/asia-pacific/singapore-g...

divbzero 7y ago
This sounds like Apple’s Find My feature with location stripped out. Still, location could be useful for individuals without smartphones or who have newly installed the app.
joelkek 7y ago
Yeah GPS casts too wide a net (imagine being in New York- everyone in a 80-story office building would be within margin of error of a single GPS point). Bluetooth seems like a better solution, and the Singapore one does it in a privacy-preserving way while storing all data on the phone. Only when a user is infected, then are they asked to upload data. https://tracetogether.gov.sg https://tracetogether.gov.sg
- ryanisnan 7y ago
  How does this work if one has a bluetooth receiver off?
  - true_religion 7y ago
    It doesn’t. It also doesn’t cover people without phones, like most children. Or people with feature phones that don’t have Bluetooth. Yet it’s still better than nothing.
johnnyAghands 7y ago
Using Bluetooth to detect potential contact + plus GPS seem like a good way to cover a lot of ground. Anyways I feel like the bigger issue is the huge honeypot problem. I think it's easier to assume data like this is bound to leak -- so what can we do to make it useless besides for its intended purpose? I mean it doesn't have to protect against like a state backed program to track an individual -- but it should protect against the usual bullshit companies like insurance or scammers.... hmmm
- cjbprime 7y ago
  The Singapore model encrypts it until someone is diagnosed. So the leak is of the thing you would tell a contact tracer anyway..
  - nicky0 7y ago
    And who holds the encryption key?
    - cjbprime 7y ago
      The user does, they're expected to decrypt for the ministry of health upon receiving a diagnosis.
iandanforth 7y ago
Also direct link to more info about the underlying protocol "BlueTrace" they are working on finalizing before open-sourcing this app for use in other countries: https://tracetogether.zendesk.com/hc/en-sg/articles/360044883814 https://tracetogether.zendesk.com/hc/en-sg/articles/36004488...
korantu 7y ago
Technical analysis of the app [1] It uses Bluetooth to find people nearby, and records their randomised id Each randomised id is associated with a phone no Link between id and phone is with ministry of health, so stealing the logs is not useful Finally, you only asked to share data if you came in contact with a known case. I guess you can choose not to share / say app got removed, but it is self-defeating; you really want to know details and who else is in danger This is war-like effort, so keeping Bluetooth on is small price to pay [1] https://medium.com/@frankvolkel/tracetogether-under-the-hood-7d5e509aeb5d https://medium.com/@frankvolkel/tracetogether-under-the-hood...
deleted 7y ago
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divbzero 7y ago

This sounds like Apple’s Find My feature with location stripped out. Still, location could be useful for individuals without smartphones or who have newly installed the app.

joelkek 7y ago

Yeah GPS casts too wide a net (imagine being in New York- everyone in a 80-story office building would be within margin of error of a single GPS point). Bluetooth seems like a better solution, and the Singapore one does it in a privacy-preserving way while storing all data on the phone. Only when a user is infected, then are they asked to upload data. https://tracetogether.gov.sg https://tracetogether.gov.sg

ryanisnan 7y ago
How does this work if one has a bluetooth receiver off?
- true_religion 7y ago
  It doesn’t. It also doesn’t cover people without phones, like most children. Or people with feature phones that don’t have Bluetooth. Yet it’s still better than nothing.

johnnyAghands 7y ago

Using Bluetooth to detect potential contact + plus GPS seem like a good way to cover a lot of ground. Anyways I feel like the bigger issue is the huge honeypot problem. I think it's easier to assume data like this is bound to leak -- so what can we do to make it useless besides for its intended purpose? I mean it doesn't have to protect against like a state backed program to track an individual -- but it should protect against the usual bullshit companies like insurance or scammers.... hmmm

cjbprime 7y ago
The Singapore model encrypts it until someone is diagnosed. So the leak is of the thing you would tell a contact tracer anyway..
- nicky0 7y ago
  And who holds the encryption key?
  - cjbprime 7y ago
    The user does, they're expected to decrypt for the ministry of health upon receiving a diagnosis.

iandanforth 7y ago

Also direct link to more info about the underlying protocol "BlueTrace" they are working on finalizing before open-sourcing this app for use in other countries: https://tracetogether.zendesk.com/hc/en-sg/articles/360044883814 https://tracetogether.zendesk.com/hc/en-sg/articles/36004488...

korantu 7y ago

Technical analysis of the app [1] It uses Bluetooth to find people nearby, and records their randomised id Each randomised id is associated with a phone no Link between id and phone is with ministry of health, so stealing the logs is not useful Finally, you only asked to share data if you came in contact with a known case. I guess you can choose not to share / say app got removed, but it is self-defeating; you really want to know details and who else is in danger This is war-like effort, so keeping Bluetooth on is small price to pay [1] https://medium.com/@frankvolkel/tracetogether-under-the-hood-7d5e509aeb5d https://medium.com/@frankvolkel/tracetogether-under-the-hood...

deleted 7y ago

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