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South Korea has virtually no new active cases daily, only 100 deaths after 4 months of exposure and hasn't brought in any laws even close the authoritarian stuf

South Korea has virtually no new active cases daily, only 100 deaths after 4 months of exposure and hasn't brought in any laws even close the authoritarian stuff that is going on elsewhere across the planet in the name of covid-19/sars-cov-2 Buyer beware. Undoing laws and measures is a lot harder than enacting them in a "crisis". "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

goblin89 7y ago
In Seoul, multiple emergency alerts asking people to keep 2 meter distance and to cancel trips and meetings were pushed to mobile phones for the first time yesterday morning. Pedestrian streets in popular districts are still fairly bustling tonight, even if less crowded given the season.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  Pushing mobile alerts is what any country with half a clue should be doing. I get regular ones telling me to wash my hands and avoid contact, it's comforting to see them everyfew days.
  - goblin89 7y ago
    In South Korea they were a bit overused I think. In addition to hand washing reminders, each phone is getting up to 2 loud but not-really-quite-actionable alerts per day, which report on 2–3 new cases discovered in nearby city districts. (But then the government uses the same alerts to notify about strong winds and elevated pollution levels, so it’s more or less a given.) The ones from yesterday were the first to ask people to limit their mobility.
    - lostmsu 7y ago
      I don't know. That actually sounds like a good option to trace/warn contacts.
palijer 7y ago
I don't think preventing the almost guaranteed deaths of thousands is qualified as a "little" safety.
- ShorsHammer 7y ago
  What actions do you think should be taken to stop other preventable deaths? I'm in a country that has banned all unnecessary movement, traffic/pedestrian accidents have dropped dramatically, it has saved magnitudes more from dying than from covid-19. Logically, all movement be banned then? Keen to hear a rationalisation for 10 traffic lives vs 1 contagious virus life. 10 people have died in 3 months since the virus was first tested here. 1500 have died on the roads. I'm interested in the sort of person who would stand up and decree one life worth more than others. Please justify the logic behind such selections.
  - beatgammit 7y ago
    I'm with you. I don't think "saving lives" is a good enough reason to give up our freedoms (barring an apocalyptic event or something). That being said, there's a lot we can do without infringing on freedoms too much. I think South Korea has a good model for handling disease spread, and The Netherlands has a good model for encouraging cycling and protecting cyclists from cars, both of which lead to lower vehicular deaths. Both countries were able to improve things without significantly disrupting society. Yeah, maybe tens of thousands of people will die a few years before they would normally die without drastic measures, but the cost to save those lives doesn't seem to be worth it.
  - perl4ever 7y ago
    You seem to be saying that fighting coronavirus has the side effect of reducing traffic deaths, but then you put "traffic lives" against "contagious virus lives". It doesn't make sense to speak of tradeoffs when you just said the same measures deal with both. Where is the conflict that your rhetorical framework relies on?
rafiki6 7y ago
I appreciate Franklin's thought here. Unfortunately those of us being rational are subject to the whims of others :(
DennisP 7y ago
That's because South Korea rolled out massive testing early, so they caught it before more extreme measures were necessary. On top of that, Koreans did a good job of voluntarily complying with social distancing measures. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-south-korea-america/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-south-ko... And from the article: > Everyone who is infected in South Korea goes into isolation in government shelters, and phones and credit card data are used to trace their prior movements and find their contacts. Where they walked before they fell ill is broadcast to the cellphones of everyone who was nearby. > Anyone even potentially exposed is quarantined at home; a GPS app tells the police if that person goes outside. The fine for doing so is $8,000.
Mvandenbergh 7y ago
People always quote that Franklin thing but please remember that was wartime propaganda. Franklin himself was later heavily involved in creating the United States Constitution and governments are essentially trade offs between safety and liberty so it's clear he wasn't an absolutist.
pinkfoot 7y ago
Benjamin Franklin also never fought a planet-wide virus.

goblin89 7y ago

In Seoul, multiple emergency alerts asking people to keep 2 meter distance and to cancel trips and meetings were pushed to mobile phones for the first time yesterday morning. Pedestrian streets in popular districts are still fairly bustling tonight, even if less crowded given the season.

ShorsHammer 7y ago
Pushing mobile alerts is what any country with half a clue should be doing. I get regular ones telling me to wash my hands and avoid contact, it's comforting to see them everyfew days.
- goblin89 7y ago
  In South Korea they were a bit overused I think. In addition to hand washing reminders, each phone is getting up to 2 loud but not-really-quite-actionable alerts per day, which report on 2–3 new cases discovered in nearby city districts. (But then the government uses the same alerts to notify about strong winds and elevated pollution levels, so it’s more or less a given.) The ones from yesterday were the first to ask people to limit their mobility.
  - lostmsu 7y ago
    I don't know. That actually sounds like a good option to trace/warn contacts.

palijer 7y ago

I don't think preventing the almost guaranteed deaths of thousands is qualified as a "little" safety.

ShorsHammer 7y ago
What actions do you think should be taken to stop other preventable deaths? I'm in a country that has banned all unnecessary movement, traffic/pedestrian accidents have dropped dramatically, it has saved magnitudes more from dying than from covid-19. Logically, all movement be banned then? Keen to hear a rationalisation for 10 traffic lives vs 1 contagious virus life. 10 people have died in 3 months since the virus was first tested here. 1500 have died on the roads. I'm interested in the sort of person who would stand up and decree one life worth more than others. Please justify the logic behind such selections.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  I'm with you. I don't think "saving lives" is a good enough reason to give up our freedoms (barring an apocalyptic event or something). That being said, there's a lot we can do without infringing on freedoms too much. I think South Korea has a good model for handling disease spread, and The Netherlands has a good model for encouraging cycling and protecting cyclists from cars, both of which lead to lower vehicular deaths. Both countries were able to improve things without significantly disrupting society. Yeah, maybe tens of thousands of people will die a few years before they would normally die without drastic measures, but the cost to save those lives doesn't seem to be worth it.
- perl4ever 7y ago
  You seem to be saying that fighting coronavirus has the side effect of reducing traffic deaths, but then you put "traffic lives" against "contagious virus lives". It doesn't make sense to speak of tradeoffs when you just said the same measures deal with both. Where is the conflict that your rhetorical framework relies on?

rafiki6 7y ago

I appreciate Franklin's thought here. Unfortunately those of us being rational are subject to the whims of others :(

DennisP 7y ago

That's because South Korea rolled out massive testing early, so they caught it before more extreme measures were necessary. On top of that, Koreans did a good job of voluntarily complying with social distancing measures. https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-south-korea-america/ https://www.thenation.com/article/world/coronavirus-south-ko... And from the article: > Everyone who is infected in South Korea goes into isolation in government shelters, and phones and credit card data are used to trace their prior movements and find their contacts. Where they walked before they fell ill is broadcast to the cellphones of everyone who was nearby. > Anyone even potentially exposed is quarantined at home; a GPS app tells the police if that person goes outside. The fine for doing so is $8,000.

Mvandenbergh 7y ago

People always quote that Franklin thing but please remember that was wartime propaganda. Franklin himself was later heavily involved in creating the United States Constitution and governments are essentially trade offs between safety and liberty so it's clear he wasn't an absolutist.

pinkfoot 7y ago

Benjamin Franklin also never fought a planet-wide virus.