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There is no way to stop the virus in the US - 10 million undocumented immigrants in the US can not afford to sit at home and watch TV for 3 months, they can't h

There is no way to stop the virus in the US - 10 million undocumented immigrants in the US can not afford to sit at home and watch TV for 3 months, they can't help you to do your fancy contact tracing to expose their families and friends who are also undocumented. They can't afford to be tested or treated as none of them will be on the government hands out list. How could you stop the coronavirus when 10 million REAL people are totally ignored from all these measures? That is the size of the Wuhan population.

Proziam 7y ago
I see you're being downvoted, but I don't sense any malice in your post. You're also not incorrect in your assessment, but your scope is a bit limited. There are far more than just undocumented immigrants who can't afford to stay home and will have to do whatever they can do to keep life going for themselves. This is true everywhere, not just the US. The last to comply won't be holding out due to malice or ignorance, but necessity.
- aquaticsunset 7y ago
  But the OP is misguided and targeting a beaten down population. What difference does it make if you’re making $7.25/hr as a natural born citizen or an undocumented immigrant? Either way this thing is hurting you hard, and people are going to act like people. It’s really, really misinformed to think that undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural born Americans” can all afford to sit inside for a few weeks.
  - melling 7y ago
    the difference? Undocumented people are less likely to seek medical care if they become ill. At least in our political climate. During a pandemic that’s dangerous for everyone. The general population and for them and their families
  - Proziam 7y ago
    People are quick to assume the intent of another. The quickest way to make the point that a non-compliant, but non-malicious population exists is to give an example. OP gave one, but now people seem to assume that because of the (heavily politicized) example given that they've "targeted" a group. Overreactive responses make it difficult to have a serious discussion about all sorts of issues. OP also hasn't said anything even remotely akin to: > undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural-born Americans” can all afford to sit inside for a few weeks. It seems intellectually dishonest to make such lofty assumptions based on a post the length of a tweet or two. Imagine if instead of assuming ill-intent we just said 'hey he's right there are people that can't afford to comply...we should consider that in our policy to the benefit of everyone involved...' The world would be a better place.
  - DennisP 7y ago
    One difference is that the government is planning to give money to citizens, but not to undocumented immigrants.
- notJim 7y ago
  Immigration status has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are undocumented immigrants who can afford it, and undocumented immigrants who cannot. The relevant factor is someone's financial position, not their immigration status. Regardless of intent, the parent comment singles out a demonized population of people. This is not constructive or helpful.
  - Proziam 7y ago
    > Immigration status has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is the sort of obvious nonsense that gets in the way of constructive solutions. Undocumented immigrants aren't getting stable employment or social benefits. Nor can they rely on the medical system or any local or federal institutions for support. They are, with absolute certainty, an identifiable group where an extraordinary majority are undoubtedly in a situation where compliance will be terrifying, if not impossible. Pretending they are being 'targeted' or 'demonized' in this thread is pure intellectual dishonesty. The reason they're being discussed is because they are in the position they are in, and because that situation creates a need for special care and attention. > This is not constructive or helpful. Actually, it is. Considering they we have millions of people who might be unable to comply, for totally logical and non-malicious reasons, is constructive. You know what's not constructive? Putting blinders on and conveniently ignoring an entire group of people who may find themselves in dire financial and medical situations, and who can potentially spread the virus to others unintentionally. This isn't demonization. This is reality. Nobody in this thread is saying 'Let's deport/kill/refuse care to all the illegals!' These people need to eat just like the rest of us, let's not pretend they just don't exist.
aquaticsunset 7y ago
Yes, during a global pandemic crisis like this, undocumented immigrants are the problem. I bet every single one of those people in Disney World last week, partygoers in New Orleans, and spring break beach students were overwhelmingly not undocumented immigrants. Fear mongering a disenfranchised population will get you nowhere.
- boomdiada 7y ago
  I don't believe that was OPs point. OP wasn't suggesting that immigrants are the problem, they are simply saying that you have to do something with 10M people that CAN'T participate in the system as designed. How do you solve for this variable? If anything, this is a PRO immigrant stance. We need to take care of these people as well and can't think of them as _outside of the system_.
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  As a resident of New Orleans I can categorically tell you 99% of those assholes in the pictures on Bourbon St were tourists taking advantage of cheap tickets
  - triceratops 7y ago
    I figured 99% of the people on Bourbon St (apart from the workers) were always tourists. I couldn't see myself ever wanting to go there if I lived in New Orleans.
    - selimthegrim 7y ago
      Locals do go there but usually well after midnight
aaron695 7y ago
This is a well thought out insightful comment. The current downvotes and comments against it say a lot about HN and why we really can't tackle this virus. We can't even take on another species attacking human kind logically.
- jkachmar 7y ago
  The author’s rhetoric is likely the cause of the downvotes, in particular focusing explicitly on “undocumented immigrants” when there seems to be no evidence that this group of people presents any greater (or lesser) risk than other groups that share their socioeconomic or demographic status. To contrast with your interpretation, I found the author’s comment to be unnecessarily divisive. Consider, for example, that Asian people are being harassed and assaulted in response to how aspects of this pandemic have been framed. Now consider the response that the author’s comment might incite towards demographics associated with undocumented immigrants, in light of this, given that there is no reason to believe the premise.
  - boomdiada 7y ago
    I mentioned this in a sibling comment. I don't believe that this interpretation of OP is very charitable. Regardless of the politics of undocumented immigrants, you have to account for how you are going to service these people. This group is currently living outside of the system. To combat COVID19, we need them to participate inside of this system. This isn't actually a bad thing to point out and it SUPPORTS the "undocumented immigrants" cause. We can't keep pretending that they don't live IN this society. Acknowledging that as it stands, they can't economically or politically participate in the system is not the same thing as advocating for them to be removed or punished. If anything, it acknowledges that the current system doesn't work and needs to be re-worked to include this group of people. Again, 10M people are unable to participate in a productive treatment or cure. This will ensure that we all fail to contain and mitigate this disaster.
    - jkachmar 7y ago
      > This group is currently living outside of the system. I think that the point that I’m trying to make (as are others in this thread) is that there are many more people who are “living outside the system” when we consider “the system” to be those who can get treatment and afford to distance themselves from others (i.e. stay home from work or work remote). Expressing concern about the problem that undocumented immigrants pose is such a massively premature thing to do that I find it impossible to read the original comment in good faith. > 10M people are unable to participate in a productive treatment or cure. Many more than 10M people are going to be unable or unwilling to participate in treatment or inoculation due to the structure of the American healthcare system. Raising the concern about undocumented immigrants inhibiting our recovery effort is naïvely misinformed at best and a dogwhistle for encouraging discriminatory behavior at worst.

Proziam 7y ago

I see you're being downvoted, but I don't sense any malice in your post. You're also not incorrect in your assessment, but your scope is a bit limited. There are far more than just undocumented immigrants who can't afford to stay home and will have to do whatever they can do to keep life going for themselves. This is true everywhere, not just the US. The last to comply won't be holding out due to malice or ignorance, but necessity.

aquaticsunset 7y ago
But the OP is misguided and targeting a beaten down population. What difference does it make if you’re making $7.25/hr as a natural born citizen or an undocumented immigrant? Either way this thing is hurting you hard, and people are going to act like people. It’s really, really misinformed to think that undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural born Americans” can all afford to sit inside for a few weeks.
- melling 7y ago
  the difference? Undocumented people are less likely to seek medical care if they become ill. At least in our political climate. During a pandemic that’s dangerous for everyone. The general population and for them and their families
- Proziam 7y ago
  People are quick to assume the intent of another. The quickest way to make the point that a non-compliant, but non-malicious population exists is to give an example. OP gave one, but now people seem to assume that because of the (heavily politicized) example given that they've "targeted" a group. Overreactive responses make it difficult to have a serious discussion about all sorts of issues. OP also hasn't said anything even remotely akin to: > undocumented immigrants are the only ones suffering, and that “good natural-born Americans” can all afford to sit inside for a few weeks. It seems intellectually dishonest to make such lofty assumptions based on a post the length of a tweet or two. Imagine if instead of assuming ill-intent we just said 'hey he's right there are people that can't afford to comply...we should consider that in our policy to the benefit of everyone involved...' The world would be a better place.
- DennisP 7y ago
  One difference is that the government is planning to give money to citizens, but not to undocumented immigrants.
notJim 7y ago
Immigration status has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are undocumented immigrants who can afford it, and undocumented immigrants who cannot. The relevant factor is someone's financial position, not their immigration status. Regardless of intent, the parent comment singles out a demonized population of people. This is not constructive or helpful.
- Proziam 7y ago
  > Immigration status has absolutely nothing to do with it. This is the sort of obvious nonsense that gets in the way of constructive solutions. Undocumented immigrants aren't getting stable employment or social benefits. Nor can they rely on the medical system or any local or federal institutions for support. They are, with absolute certainty, an identifiable group where an extraordinary majority are undoubtedly in a situation where compliance will be terrifying, if not impossible. Pretending they are being 'targeted' or 'demonized' in this thread is pure intellectual dishonesty. The reason they're being discussed is because they are in the position they are in, and because that situation creates a need for special care and attention. > This is not constructive or helpful. Actually, it is. Considering they we have millions of people who might be unable to comply, for totally logical and non-malicious reasons, is constructive. You know what's not constructive? Putting blinders on and conveniently ignoring an entire group of people who may find themselves in dire financial and medical situations, and who can potentially spread the virus to others unintentionally. This isn't demonization. This is reality. Nobody in this thread is saying 'Let's deport/kill/refuse care to all the illegals!' These people need to eat just like the rest of us, let's not pretend they just don't exist.

aquaticsunset 7y ago

Yes, during a global pandemic crisis like this, undocumented immigrants are the problem. I bet every single one of those people in Disney World last week, partygoers in New Orleans, and spring break beach students were overwhelmingly not undocumented immigrants. Fear mongering a disenfranchised population will get you nowhere.

boomdiada 7y ago
I don't believe that was OPs point. OP wasn't suggesting that immigrants are the problem, they are simply saying that you have to do something with 10M people that CAN'T participate in the system as designed. How do you solve for this variable? If anything, this is a PRO immigrant stance. We need to take care of these people as well and can't think of them as _outside of the system_.
selimthegrim 7y ago
As a resident of New Orleans I can categorically tell you 99% of those assholes in the pictures on Bourbon St were tourists taking advantage of cheap tickets
- triceratops 7y ago
  I figured 99% of the people on Bourbon St (apart from the workers) were always tourists. I couldn't see myself ever wanting to go there if I lived in New Orleans.
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Locals do go there but usually well after midnight

aaron695 7y ago

This is a well thought out insightful comment. The current downvotes and comments against it say a lot about HN and why we really can't tackle this virus. We can't even take on another species attacking human kind logically.

jkachmar 7y ago
The author’s rhetoric is likely the cause of the downvotes, in particular focusing explicitly on “undocumented immigrants” when there seems to be no evidence that this group of people presents any greater (or lesser) risk than other groups that share their socioeconomic or demographic status. To contrast with your interpretation, I found the author’s comment to be unnecessarily divisive. Consider, for example, that Asian people are being harassed and assaulted in response to how aspects of this pandemic have been framed. Now consider the response that the author’s comment might incite towards demographics associated with undocumented immigrants, in light of this, given that there is no reason to believe the premise.
- boomdiada 7y ago
  I mentioned this in a sibling comment. I don't believe that this interpretation of OP is very charitable. Regardless of the politics of undocumented immigrants, you have to account for how you are going to service these people. This group is currently living outside of the system. To combat COVID19, we need them to participate inside of this system. This isn't actually a bad thing to point out and it SUPPORTS the "undocumented immigrants" cause. We can't keep pretending that they don't live IN this society. Acknowledging that as it stands, they can't economically or politically participate in the system is not the same thing as advocating for them to be removed or punished. If anything, it acknowledges that the current system doesn't work and needs to be re-worked to include this group of people. Again, 10M people are unable to participate in a productive treatment or cure. This will ensure that we all fail to contain and mitigate this disaster.
  - jkachmar 7y ago
    > This group is currently living outside of the system. I think that the point that I’m trying to make (as are others in this thread) is that there are many more people who are “living outside the system” when we consider “the system” to be those who can get treatment and afford to distance themselves from others (i.e. stay home from work or work remote). Expressing concern about the problem that undocumented immigrants pose is such a massively premature thing to do that I find it impossible to read the original comment in good faith. > 10M people are unable to participate in a productive treatment or cure. Many more than 10M people are going to be unable or unwilling to participate in treatment or inoculation due to the structure of the American healthcare system. Raising the concern about undocumented immigrants inhibiting our recovery effort is naïvely misinformed at best and a dogwhistle for encouraging discriminatory behavior at worst.