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I think treating flat earth theory as a rational argument to debunk is appealing, but ultimately unproductive. There was an interesting article some time ago:

I think treating flat earth theory as a rational argument to debunk is appealing, but ultimately unproductive. There was an interesting article some time ago: https://jameshfisher.com/2019/01/20/my-parents-are-flat-earthers https://jameshfisher.com/2019/01/20/my-parents-are-flat-eart..., which casted the human perspective on the problem: at the root, believing a conspiracy theory gives self-importance to the believer, and it's, in a way, "fun". Considering this perspective, this phenomenon belongs to the class of problems whose easy angle of attack is the technical (rational, in this case), and the difficult one is the human. I'd argue that if one thinks that a flat earther is metaphorically a brick wall, and consequently a fool, opposing technical arguments against it is equally as foolish. It's actually the other side of the coin: yelling arguments to a wall is the mirrored human problem, in my opinion. In conclusion, I think it would be more productive to think more about why this belief is appealing to people (and why it's spreading), rather than proving it's false.

dmos62 7y ago
Your point about this being a human problem above all is spot on, and I really enjoyed how you phrased your point about mirror problems. My impression of the flat earth theorists or enthusiasts is that it's a reaction to a sense of oppression (similarly to what another top level comment said). An assertion of power by negating a "common" truth. I like this explanation because I can relate to it quite well. The ditch the mind jumps into is that it's not that your problems are too difficult for you, but that the whole setup (context that formulates the problem) is a lie. Combine that with a profound distrust of the mainstream, some naivete and some luck, and you'll get flat earth theory.
- mrfusion 7y ago
  I call them a “get rich quick” scheme but for intelligence. Think about it. You watch a couple videos and now you’re smarter than everyone you know. (Or you feel that way) I still wish I had a way to counter it.
- crispyambulance 7y ago
  You can see the same kind of psychology in those that claim they've created free-energy machines and also the "Einstein was wrong" crowd. It's peculiar kind of chip-on-the-shoulder combining a sense of under-dog angst with a large heap of obfuscation to counter attempts at understanding. Some are better at this kind of stuff than others, and remain as high-functioning members of society. The Bogdanov affair comes to mind as well Eric Weinstein's mathless and paperless "Geometric Unity" theory.
Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
I have been basically coming to the same conclusion as you. Another reason for keeping debunking this was for me the belief that consensus is important. That we as a society need to be able to arrive the correct consensus on various issues, and otherwise big tragedies can happen. That any single human can be wrong about things, that's not a problem, but there need to be consensus mechanisms that makes sure that dangerous or wrong beliefs are not propagated far enough, - then it would become dangerous. And so this belief pushed me into still debunking these theories. Because yes, it might be true that it is a human-argument instead of a technical argument, but it was still in my best interest to contribute to a correct consensus of the whole system, and so I still needed to convince them, maybe now using the arguments that appealed to their human/spiritual side instead of the technical side. Because it was still up to me, as a member of the society to uphold the consensus. But ultimately I have arrived at the same outlook as you have, and I've done through realizing that none of the flat earth people matter for the global consensus. If you look around at which people believe in flat earth, they are never important, they are never policy makers, they are never influential, they are rarely even productive members of society (especially hardcore ones). If anything, they make the perfect marketing for the inadequacy of their beliefs by showing their stance in the society. This is how consensus mechanism works in this area: not by convincing these marginal(influentially speaking) people of the correct view, but by keeping them marginal, - and the viewpoint itself, by association. I think that every time there is a person who arrives at an influential position, by that time they do it they have already experienced so much growth and so much work on themselves (because that is demanded of them to succeed in the competence hierarchy that is the essence of the western society), that they don't ever fall into fallacies like flat earth because they don't have a reason to feel extra special by harboring controversial beliefs.
dmitryminkovsky 7y ago
That’s a pretty good post thanks for sharing. It’s fun and you get to be in a club is at the heart of it I also think. Life is about coping with our existence, and being stone cold rational often appears to me as much of a coping mechanism as being a flat earther.
Steko 7y ago
> why this belief is appealing to people Part of the appeal for them is they are convenient shortcuts for unremarkable people to put themselves above actual experts without actually acquiring any expertise. With their newfound esoteric knowledge, they're now in an exclusive club.
ourmandave 7y ago
be more productive to think more about why this belief is appealing to people The Flat Earth Society exists to pretend there's credible science that explains the infallible 2000-year-old view that the sun goes around the earth.
beatgammit 7y ago
Eh, disapproving conspiracy theories is also fun since you never know what you're going to be up against next. They're surprisingly complex and a great exercise for finding logical flaws in an argument. If it stresses you out, ignore flat Earthers. I did the opposite and got a flat Earth poster to troll my coworkers, but that may not be appropriate where you work.

dmos62 7y ago

Your point about this being a human problem above all is spot on, and I really enjoyed how you phrased your point about mirror problems. My impression of the flat earth theorists or enthusiasts is that it's a reaction to a sense of oppression (similarly to what another top level comment said). An assertion of power by negating a "common" truth. I like this explanation because I can relate to it quite well. The ditch the mind jumps into is that it's not that your problems are too difficult for you, but that the whole setup (context that formulates the problem) is a lie. Combine that with a profound distrust of the mainstream, some naivete and some luck, and you'll get flat earth theory.

mrfusion 7y ago
I call them a “get rich quick” scheme but for intelligence. Think about it. You watch a couple videos and now you’re smarter than everyone you know. (Or you feel that way) I still wish I had a way to counter it.
crispyambulance 7y ago
You can see the same kind of psychology in those that claim they've created free-energy machines and also the "Einstein was wrong" crowd. It's peculiar kind of chip-on-the-shoulder combining a sense of under-dog angst with a large heap of obfuscation to counter attempts at understanding. Some are better at this kind of stuff than others, and remain as high-functioning members of society. The Bogdanov affair comes to mind as well Eric Weinstein's mathless and paperless "Geometric Unity" theory.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

I have been basically coming to the same conclusion as you. Another reason for keeping debunking this was for me the belief that consensus is important. That we as a society need to be able to arrive the correct consensus on various issues, and otherwise big tragedies can happen. That any single human can be wrong about things, that's not a problem, but there need to be consensus mechanisms that makes sure that dangerous or wrong beliefs are not propagated far enough, - then it would become dangerous. And so this belief pushed me into still debunking these theories. Because yes, it might be true that it is a human-argument instead of a technical argument, but it was still in my best interest to contribute to a correct consensus of the whole system, and so I still needed to convince them, maybe now using the arguments that appealed to their human/spiritual side instead of the technical side. Because it was still up to me, as a member of the society to uphold the consensus. But ultimately I have arrived at the same outlook as you have, and I've done through realizing that none of the flat earth people matter for the global consensus. If you look around at which people believe in flat earth, they are never important, they are never policy makers, they are never influential, they are rarely even productive members of society (especially hardcore ones). If anything, they make the perfect marketing for the inadequacy of their beliefs by showing their stance in the society. This is how consensus mechanism works in this area: not by convincing these marginal(influentially speaking) people of the correct view, but by keeping them marginal, - and the viewpoint itself, by association. I think that every time there is a person who arrives at an influential position, by that time they do it they have already experienced so much growth and so much work on themselves (because that is demanded of them to succeed in the competence hierarchy that is the essence of the western society), that they don't ever fall into fallacies like flat earth because they don't have a reason to feel extra special by harboring controversial beliefs.

dmitryminkovsky 7y ago

That’s a pretty good post thanks for sharing. It’s fun and you get to be in a club is at the heart of it I also think. Life is about coping with our existence, and being stone cold rational often appears to me as much of a coping mechanism as being a flat earther.

Steko 7y ago

> why this belief is appealing to people Part of the appeal for them is they are convenient shortcuts for unremarkable people to put themselves above actual experts without actually acquiring any expertise. With their newfound esoteric knowledge, they're now in an exclusive club.

ourmandave 7y ago

be more productive to think more about why this belief is appealing to people The Flat Earth Society exists to pretend there's credible science that explains the infallible 2000-year-old view that the sun goes around the earth.

beatgammit 7y ago

Eh, disapproving conspiracy theories is also fun since you never know what you're going to be up against next. They're surprisingly complex and a great exercise for finding logical flaws in an argument. If it stresses you out, ignore flat Earthers. I did the opposite and got a flat Earth poster to troll my coworkers, but that may not be appropriate where you work.