8 ms·

Ventilator built from snorkel mask and 3D printed part

98 points by nireyal 7y ago

growlist 7y ago
Some interesting hacks appearing i.e. modifying a single ventilator to support two or even more people.
- mk89 7y ago
  It's amazing what people are coming up in the last weeks to make things work, even though they don't follow the standards, the regulations, etc. etc. The human brain under a certain amount of stress/motivation can come up with a sh load of ideas and solutions.
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    I think a lot of it is finally feeling safe to experiment. I'm sure ideas like this were always around but people knew they'd be in prison if they tried it. The west gone wild Pioneering spirit A golden age for cowboys Warstories for grandchildren
  - azernik 7y ago
    These hacks have been around for years - they're standard practice in mass casualty incidents (e.g. a lot of the research on ventilator-sharing was done after the Vegas shooting) where sudden surges of requirements outpace local supply. We're just in a situation where well-known and -studied emergency procedures are becoming standard practice.
stuaxo 7y ago
It doesnt help people who need intubation as many will with the virus.
- laputan_machine 7y ago
  But could it help those who do not?
  - numpad0 7y ago
    Are they(expected to be) in short supply?
- mft_ 7y ago
  Really, is that a helpful comment? A doctor who might reasonably know what's what, identifies a problem and a novel solution is found. > we have been contacted by a former head physician of the Gardone Valtrompia Hospital, Dr. Renato Favero, who’ve got in touch with Isinnova through a doctor from the Chiari Hospital, the health facility for which we were manufacturing the emergency valves with 3D printing process. Doctor Favero shared with us an idea to fix the possible shortage of hospital C-PAP masks for sub-intensive therapy, which is emerging as a concrete problem linked to the spread of Covid-19 And the best you can do is identify another problem that it doesn't fix?
yamrzou 7y ago
Relatedly, some engineering students from Tunisia created 3D printed protective masks and started supplying hospitals as they have a shortage of those. The prototype is open source : https://github.com/FAB619/Protection-Mask--COVID-19 https://github.com/FAB619/Protection-Mask--COVID-19
umut 7y ago
Really hope that our societies can fund some research and development to bring elasticity to health care capacity. This won't be the last time we as humans will need it, and it will help if some smart people work on this instead of ad click optimization..
Kaibeezy 7y ago
I’m having trouble seeing why this couldn’t be a widespread solution. It uses the same supply lines; the mask is designed to maintain a seal and support normal breathing. What prevents this from being an option when the alternative is, I dunno, death? Is this actually a “ventilator”? Or is it just a mask and it’s the rest of the air delivery system that’s in short supply? Can anyone point to a good basic intro to the “design a ventilator” problem?
- shoeffner 7y ago
  This is just the valve, as the ventilators are much more complex.
- azernik 7y ago
  Yup! It's just the mask. A ventilator is a pretty complex, configurable piece of electronics and machinery. It needs to push air in and pull it out at specific volumes and pressures (usually hand-calibrated to the individual patient by a doctor), and do so with a pressure curve that does as little damage to the lungs in the process. The machines are indeed in short supply (which this doesn't fix), but so are a lot of parts that become contaminated after use on a patient (which this does fix). See also that project going around for 3D-printing replacement valves.
- nireyal 7y ago
  Look at the sketches at the bottom of the page. It appears that with the snorkel and 3D part you can connect directly to in-wall oxygen.
  - azernik 7y ago
    Copying over my response to another comment, because I think people will see this and get the wrong idea: What you refer to as the "hospital's oxygen system" is the oxygen output port on a ventilator. See also this note in the text: "The prototype as a whole has been tested on one of our colleagues directly inside the Chiari Hospital, connected to the ventilator body, and has proven to be correctly working." (Note that the mask is general-purpose, so they mention in the video that it can also be attached to a CPAP machine or to a plain old oxygen feed for less severe cases; but people who need a ventilator are still going to need a ventilator with this. They're just going to have a mask available.)
donquichotte 7y ago
Just signed up as a local maker, it is nice that they are trying to connect hospitals with manufacturing capabilities [1]. [1] https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdc0aa34YSqm6hPQWRL9OT4bFaowXSlvObUVr9kZurn4MZnoQ/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdc0aa34YSqm6hPQWRL...
jylam 7y ago
I'm not a ventilator specialist, but this is gaining some traction and I fail to understand how it really helps. Is the ventilator shortage just a mask shortage ? Isn't there a quite complicated machine plugged to the mask ? With complex valves and a motor and pressure sensors and alarms and whatever ? Again, I don't know what I'm talking about.
- njcameron 7y ago
  Seems like in times of need ventilators can be rigged to support multiple patients: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1197/j.aem.2006.05.009 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1197/j.aem.2006.0... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER2h9STy7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER2h9STy7Q
- shoeffner 7y ago
  There has been some discussion on 3D printing medical ventilators on the local hackerspace mailing list. One of the participants used to work at a company which builds those and made similar points: There are different systems, one are the C/VPAP which are only for ventilation during sleep, avoiding a closure of the pharynx by increasing the pressure to a certain maximum value. Some of those have parameters also taking care of the patient's breathing pressure etc. but in general can only help for "better sleep" – if they fail, then you have a bad sleep but won't die. The systems they use in hospitals are the complex machines you describe: they have battery power, measure the flow of breath, have alarms etc. Even here they distinguish between "supported breathing" and "keeping alive", i.e. in the former case the machine helps you to breathe while the second takes care of breathing for you. In Italy, a doctor asked for a replacement part of their ventilators which was then 3D printed – the valves mentioned in the article. This seems to have led to a surge in people now trying to build, design, etc. ventilators which can essentially be build anywhere, to combat supply chain shortages. Again: You are right, medical ventilators are a tricky business and difficult to build. But in this case, the ventilators seem to be there, they just need the valves, which can be printed. And they put up a huge disclaimer that patients need to agree to use unapproved devices. A German article covering this is [1]. [1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/kreative-loesungen-in-zeiten-von-corona-lebensretter-aus.676.de.html?dram:article_id=472978 https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/kreative-loesungen-in-zeiten-...
Tepix 7y ago
The headline is misleading, this isn't a ventilator, this is an emergency mask. Great project though!
azernik 7y ago
Original title is "Emergency mask for hospital ventilators". The title on the post is misleading. A ventilator is a machine with electronics, moving parts, and sensors that pushes air into people's lungs and pulls it back out. This is an improvised replacement for one of the less- or non-reusable accessories in short supply, the mask that goes on the patient.
- nireyal 7y ago
  Technically it is a "ventilation-assisted mask" but according to the sketches, it does plug directly into the hospital's oxygen system. Scroll down to the bottom to see sketches.
  - azernik 7y ago
    What you refer to as the "hospital's oxygen system" is the oxygen output port on a ventilator. See also this note in the text: "The prototype as a whole has been tested on one of our colleagues directly inside the Chiari Hospital, connected to the ventilator body, and has proven to be correctly working."
nireyal 7y ago
Article regarding inventors in the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/ventilators-coronavirus-italy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/ventilators-coron...
Theodores 7y ago
The panic of where we will get the ventilators from does not have to be the sole focus. Not every patient will need a million dollar ventilator. If someone is self isolated with the disease then they may need a lower technology solution such as a dehumidifier. In that way they can avoid the secondary bacterial infections that are the real killer. They can recover in a room that won't be growing mould because it is damp from their breathing. A humble dehumidifier could put someone on the road to recovery before it gets to the ventilator stage in a northern climate where damp is a problem.
whenanother 7y ago
replace the snorkel with a fireman’s mask. it is probably designed to take heat and can be more easily sterilized.

98 points by nireyal 7y ago

growlist 7y ago

Some interesting hacks appearing i.e. modifying a single ventilator to support two or even more people.

mk89 7y ago
It's amazing what people are coming up in the last weeks to make things work, even though they don't follow the standards, the regulations, etc. etc. The human brain under a certain amount of stress/motivation can come up with a sh load of ideas and solutions.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  I think a lot of it is finally feeling safe to experiment. I'm sure ideas like this were always around but people knew they'd be in prison if they tried it. The west gone wild Pioneering spirit A golden age for cowboys Warstories for grandchildren
- azernik 7y ago
  These hacks have been around for years - they're standard practice in mass casualty incidents (e.g. a lot of the research on ventilator-sharing was done after the Vegas shooting) where sudden surges of requirements outpace local supply. We're just in a situation where well-known and -studied emergency procedures are becoming standard practice.

stuaxo 7y ago

It doesnt help people who need intubation as many will with the virus.

laputan_machine 7y ago
But could it help those who do not?
- numpad0 7y ago
  Are they(expected to be) in short supply?
mft_ 7y ago
Really, is that a helpful comment? A doctor who might reasonably know what's what, identifies a problem and a novel solution is found. > we have been contacted by a former head physician of the Gardone Valtrompia Hospital, Dr. Renato Favero, who’ve got in touch with Isinnova through a doctor from the Chiari Hospital, the health facility for which we were manufacturing the emergency valves with 3D printing process. Doctor Favero shared with us an idea to fix the possible shortage of hospital C-PAP masks for sub-intensive therapy, which is emerging as a concrete problem linked to the spread of Covid-19 And the best you can do is identify another problem that it doesn't fix?

yamrzou 7y ago

Relatedly, some engineering students from Tunisia created 3D printed protective masks and started supplying hospitals as they have a shortage of those. The prototype is open source : https://github.com/FAB619/Protection-Mask--COVID-19 https://github.com/FAB619/Protection-Mask--COVID-19

umut 7y ago

Really hope that our societies can fund some research and development to bring elasticity to health care capacity. This won't be the last time we as humans will need it, and it will help if some smart people work on this instead of ad click optimization..

Kaibeezy 7y ago

I’m having trouble seeing why this couldn’t be a widespread solution. It uses the same supply lines; the mask is designed to maintain a seal and support normal breathing. What prevents this from being an option when the alternative is, I dunno, death? Is this actually a “ventilator”? Or is it just a mask and it’s the rest of the air delivery system that’s in short supply? Can anyone point to a good basic intro to the “design a ventilator” problem?

shoeffner 7y ago
This is just the valve, as the ventilators are much more complex.
azernik 7y ago
Yup! It's just the mask. A ventilator is a pretty complex, configurable piece of electronics and machinery. It needs to push air in and pull it out at specific volumes and pressures (usually hand-calibrated to the individual patient by a doctor), and do so with a pressure curve that does as little damage to the lungs in the process. The machines are indeed in short supply (which this doesn't fix), but so are a lot of parts that become contaminated after use on a patient (which this does fix). See also that project going around for 3D-printing replacement valves.
nireyal 7y ago
Look at the sketches at the bottom of the page. It appears that with the snorkel and 3D part you can connect directly to in-wall oxygen.
- azernik 7y ago
  Copying over my response to another comment, because I think people will see this and get the wrong idea: What you refer to as the "hospital's oxygen system" is the oxygen output port on a ventilator. See also this note in the text: "The prototype as a whole has been tested on one of our colleagues directly inside the Chiari Hospital, connected to the ventilator body, and has proven to be correctly working." (Note that the mask is general-purpose, so they mention in the video that it can also be attached to a CPAP machine or to a plain old oxygen feed for less severe cases; but people who need a ventilator are still going to need a ventilator with this. They're just going to have a mask available.)

donquichotte 7y ago

Just signed up as a local maker, it is nice that they are trying to connect hospitals with manufacturing capabilities [1]. [1] https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdc0aa34YSqm6hPQWRL9OT4bFaowXSlvObUVr9kZurn4MZnoQ/viewform https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdc0aa34YSqm6hPQWRL...

jylam 7y ago

I'm not a ventilator specialist, but this is gaining some traction and I fail to understand how it really helps. Is the ventilator shortage just a mask shortage ? Isn't there a quite complicated machine plugged to the mask ? With complex valves and a motor and pressure sensors and alarms and whatever ? Again, I don't know what I'm talking about.

njcameron 7y ago
Seems like in times of need ventilators can be rigged to support multiple patients: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1197/j.aem.2006.05.009 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1197/j.aem.2006.0... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER2h9STy7Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NER2h9STy7Q
shoeffner 7y ago
There has been some discussion on 3D printing medical ventilators on the local hackerspace mailing list. One of the participants used to work at a company which builds those and made similar points: There are different systems, one are the C/VPAP which are only for ventilation during sleep, avoiding a closure of the pharynx by increasing the pressure to a certain maximum value. Some of those have parameters also taking care of the patient's breathing pressure etc. but in general can only help for "better sleep" – if they fail, then you have a bad sleep but won't die. The systems they use in hospitals are the complex machines you describe: they have battery power, measure the flow of breath, have alarms etc. Even here they distinguish between "supported breathing" and "keeping alive", i.e. in the former case the machine helps you to breathe while the second takes care of breathing for you. In Italy, a doctor asked for a replacement part of their ventilators which was then 3D printed – the valves mentioned in the article. This seems to have led to a surge in people now trying to build, design, etc. ventilators which can essentially be build anywhere, to combat supply chain shortages. Again: You are right, medical ventilators are a tricky business and difficult to build. But in this case, the ventilators seem to be there, they just need the valves, which can be printed. And they put up a huge disclaimer that patients need to agree to use unapproved devices. A German article covering this is [1]. [1] https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/kreative-loesungen-in-zeiten-von-corona-lebensretter-aus.676.de.html?dram:article_id=472978 https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/kreative-loesungen-in-zeiten-...

Tepix 7y ago

The headline is misleading, this isn't a ventilator, this is an emergency mask. Great project though!

azernik 7y ago

Original title is "Emergency mask for hospital ventilators". The title on the post is misleading. A ventilator is a machine with electronics, moving parts, and sensors that pushes air into people's lungs and pulls it back out. This is an improvised replacement for one of the less- or non-reusable accessories in short supply, the mask that goes on the patient.

nireyal 7y ago
Technically it is a "ventilation-assisted mask" but according to the sketches, it does plug directly into the hospital's oxygen system. Scroll down to the bottom to see sketches.
- azernik 7y ago
  What you refer to as the "hospital's oxygen system" is the oxygen output port on a ventilator. See also this note in the text: "The prototype as a whole has been tested on one of our colleagues directly inside the Chiari Hospital, connected to the ventilator body, and has proven to be correctly working."

nireyal 7y ago

Article regarding inventors in the NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/ventilators-coronavirus-italy.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/opinion/ventilators-coron...

Theodores 7y ago

The panic of where we will get the ventilators from does not have to be the sole focus. Not every patient will need a million dollar ventilator. If someone is self isolated with the disease then they may need a lower technology solution such as a dehumidifier. In that way they can avoid the secondary bacterial infections that are the real killer. They can recover in a room that won't be growing mould because it is damp from their breathing. A humble dehumidifier could put someone on the road to recovery before it gets to the ventilator stage in a northern climate where damp is a problem.

whenanother 7y ago

replace the snorkel with a fireman’s mask. it is probably designed to take heat and can be more easily sterilized.