4 ms·

My daughter immediately asked: who's winning? Darn good question, and I didn't find an answer in the article (though admittedly I skimmed a bit).

tc313 7y ago
The gamers are generally faster because the games are not perfect simulations of reality.
- lucb1e 7y ago
  Or even if they were, the "real" drivers are trained to respond to a completely different set of sensations. The simulation can be perfect, but when you're sitting still, you don't feel things such as whether the simulated car is slipping at all (just an example, there are of course a thousand other things).
  - Scene_Cast2 7y ago
    Well, you feel it but in a different way. People spend a lot of money on Force Feedback wheels, with the fancier ones running into 4 figures. Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc.
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      >Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc. Well, there are other solutions for that as well, but that's beyond most mortals.
  - 6510 7y ago
    The not dying part seems limiting.
    - lucb1e 7y ago
      I was watching a part and yes. You're making a joke but this (plus that it wasn't for competition points; there was no point to winning) was clearly affecting the race and reduced my enjoyment because they just weren't always giving it their all.
  - p1necone 7y ago
    With force feedback wheels and pressure sensitive brake pedals you can get a feel for traction pretty well.
    - DingleDook101 7y ago
      Don't bother on HN. These bubble boys don't even know anything about vehicles.
- p1necone 7y ago
  Sim accuracy could affect times either way (also some sims are pretty darn accurate). I suspect the biggest difference is the risk taking aspect. Sim drivers don't have to think about safety at all.
  - smileysteve 7y ago
    They had damage on low, but having watched it, considering the damage to the car is important to the finish.
  - dharmab 7y ago
    Except in iRacing, where even minor incidents are tracked across races and low safety rating has disqualify you from higher split
  - tc313 7y ago
    > Sim accuracy could affect times either way I meant that pro sim racers are generally faster than pro drivers at sim racing, not that the simulation times are faster than the real times.
- Jaxkr 7y ago
  Professional drivers destroy in simulations like racing.com
  - JshWright 7y ago
    Professional drivers that also spend a lot of time sim racing, that is... The same is true in this series. Drivers like Max Verstappen and Lando Norris (among the best drivers in the world) so very well, but they also spend a lot of their free time playing these games. Other world class drivers (Hamilton, Vettel, etc), likely wouldn't do anywhere near as well. Obviously there is some overlap in the skills required, but at the end of the day, experience gaming is going to help more than more experience in a real car.
    - AmericanChopper 7y ago
      Hamilton’s done a few exhibition sim races, and generally does very well in them. The skills translate much better from track to sim than they do the other way around. If you watch the break and throttle pressure on these streams, it’s obvious that the professional racers are much better. They do things like trail breaking, and managing engine power a lot more competently and consistently than the sim enthusiasts. I’d imagine the main obstacle would be getting used to the different feedback sources. It’s also worth noting that most F1 drivers (I don’t really know about other motorsports) do at least some sim training. Kimi is the only current driver I know of who’s said he doesn’t use the sim.
      - JshWright 7y ago
        Yeah, 100% agree that real experience translates to gaming experience better than gaming experience would translate to a real car. The sims that the teams run (especially the top teams) are significantly more advanced than a CodeMasters game and fancy steering wheel...
        AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Not sure what the teams use these days, as they seem to have become more secretive about it as the technology has gotten better. But I’ve seen some of the commercial products that have the enormous surround screen, moving chassis, and thing attached to the helmet to simulate force on the neck. I’d imagine the better off teams have facilities like that. The software would certainly be better than the CodeMaster game, but I can’t imagine it being that much better than iRacing (apart from being more customised to the current tracks/cars).
- dharmab 7y ago
  A few of the real drivers are also highly ranked simmers as well. Max Verstappen (one of the best drivers in F1) is commonly seen in public iRacing races
  - ultra2d 7y ago
    Obligatory reference to him practicing an overtake [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5-DZNjBOg&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5-DZNjBOg&feature=youtu.be] before doing it in real-life. Also see https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Max-Verstappens-move-on-the-outside-of-Blanchimont-so-impressive https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Max-Verstappens-move-on-the-out... .
- philjohn 7y ago
  Except first place was the Renault test and reserve driver ...
josephpmay 7y ago
In the case of the big Nascar race today, the winner (Hamlin) is a professional IRL racer who was discovered in the eSports world
notatoad 7y ago
earlier this week, there was an article about F1 drivers playing the codemasters F1 game, and the best pro driver came in 8th and seemed pretty happy to have done that well. the rationale is that driving is not just a challenge of operating the controls, but a physical challenge too. when you take away the physical aspect, the drivers lose not only the advantage of their physical training, but also an important input that they use for reactions.
- saberdancer 7y ago
  You underestimate the pro drivers. The reason why they came in 8th or so is that they did not train for it. They were competing as rookies in a game that some of the sim races spent hundreds of hours in. They are bound to be much slower that "pro" simracers. The other sensory inputs are a factor, but most drivers adapt very fast to it. Give them enough seat time and you see them top of the charts, they are not pro real life drivers because they lack reflexes or understanding of racing dynamics.
kbirkeland 7y ago
In this case, it looks like a NASCAR spotter was the winner: https://kickinthetires.net/esports/spotter-josh-williams-upsets-the-pros-in-the-replacements-100/ https://kickinthetires.net/esports/spotter-josh-williams-ups...
thsealienbstrds 7y ago
GT Sport has a DLC-mode where you can do time trials vs. Lewis Hamilton's lap times. On a track where he clocked 1 minute 37 seconds, I was pretty shocked to find that the top 10 GT Sport players _all_ clocked lap times around 2 seconds faster than that.
- saberdancer 7y ago
  Whats so shocking about it? Hamilton probably spent an hour or so for each of those laps, maybe less. Top 10 guys spend days or weeks doing it.
  - thsealienbstrds 7y ago
    Yeah it makes sense when you think about it, but the first time you see it you're like wtf.

tc313 7y ago

The gamers are generally faster because the games are not perfect simulations of reality.

lucb1e 7y ago
Or even if they were, the "real" drivers are trained to respond to a completely different set of sensations. The simulation can be perfect, but when you're sitting still, you don't feel things such as whether the simulated car is slipping at all (just an example, there are of course a thousand other things).
- Scene_Cast2 7y ago
  Well, you feel it but in a different way. People spend a lot of money on Force Feedback wheels, with the fancier ones running into 4 figures. Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    >Through the wheel, you're expected to feel everything including tyre grip, slip, road conditions, etc. Well, there are other solutions for that as well, but that's beyond most mortals.
- 6510 7y ago
  The not dying part seems limiting.
  - lucb1e 7y ago
    I was watching a part and yes. You're making a joke but this (plus that it wasn't for competition points; there was no point to winning) was clearly affecting the race and reduced my enjoyment because they just weren't always giving it their all.
- p1necone 7y ago
  With force feedback wheels and pressure sensitive brake pedals you can get a feel for traction pretty well.
  - DingleDook101 7y ago
    Don't bother on HN. These bubble boys don't even know anything about vehicles.
p1necone 7y ago
Sim accuracy could affect times either way (also some sims are pretty darn accurate). I suspect the biggest difference is the risk taking aspect. Sim drivers don't have to think about safety at all.
- smileysteve 7y ago
  They had damage on low, but having watched it, considering the damage to the car is important to the finish.
- dharmab 7y ago
  Except in iRacing, where even minor incidents are tracked across races and low safety rating has disqualify you from higher split
- tc313 7y ago
  > Sim accuracy could affect times either way I meant that pro sim racers are generally faster than pro drivers at sim racing, not that the simulation times are faster than the real times.
Jaxkr 7y ago
Professional drivers destroy in simulations like racing.com
- JshWright 7y ago
  Professional drivers that also spend a lot of time sim racing, that is... The same is true in this series. Drivers like Max Verstappen and Lando Norris (among the best drivers in the world) so very well, but they also spend a lot of their free time playing these games. Other world class drivers (Hamilton, Vettel, etc), likely wouldn't do anywhere near as well. Obviously there is some overlap in the skills required, but at the end of the day, experience gaming is going to help more than more experience in a real car.
  - AmericanChopper 7y ago
    Hamilton’s done a few exhibition sim races, and generally does very well in them. The skills translate much better from track to sim than they do the other way around. If you watch the break and throttle pressure on these streams, it’s obvious that the professional racers are much better. They do things like trail breaking, and managing engine power a lot more competently and consistently than the sim enthusiasts. I’d imagine the main obstacle would be getting used to the different feedback sources. It’s also worth noting that most F1 drivers (I don’t really know about other motorsports) do at least some sim training. Kimi is the only current driver I know of who’s said he doesn’t use the sim.
    - JshWright 7y ago
      Yeah, 100% agree that real experience translates to gaming experience better than gaming experience would translate to a real car. The sims that the teams run (especially the top teams) are significantly more advanced than a CodeMasters game and fancy steering wheel...
      - AmericanChopper 7y ago
        Not sure what the teams use these days, as they seem to have become more secretive about it as the technology has gotten better. But I’ve seen some of the commercial products that have the enormous surround screen, moving chassis, and thing attached to the helmet to simulate force on the neck. I’d imagine the better off teams have facilities like that. The software would certainly be better than the CodeMaster game, but I can’t imagine it being that much better than iRacing (apart from being more customised to the current tracks/cars).
dharmab 7y ago
A few of the real drivers are also highly ranked simmers as well. Max Verstappen (one of the best drivers in F1) is commonly seen in public iRacing races
- ultra2d 7y ago
  Obligatory reference to him practicing an overtake [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5-DZNjBOg&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y5-DZNjBOg&feature=youtu.be] before doing it in real-life. Also see https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Max-Verstappens-move-on-the-outside-of-Blanchimont-so-impressive https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Max-Verstappens-move-on-the-out... .
philjohn 7y ago
Except first place was the Renault test and reserve driver ...

josephpmay 7y ago

In the case of the big Nascar race today, the winner (Hamlin) is a professional IRL racer who was discovered in the eSports world

notatoad 7y ago

earlier this week, there was an article about F1 drivers playing the codemasters F1 game, and the best pro driver came in 8th and seemed pretty happy to have done that well. the rationale is that driving is not just a challenge of operating the controls, but a physical challenge too. when you take away the physical aspect, the drivers lose not only the advantage of their physical training, but also an important input that they use for reactions.

saberdancer 7y ago
You underestimate the pro drivers. The reason why they came in 8th or so is that they did not train for it. They were competing as rookies in a game that some of the sim races spent hundreds of hours in. They are bound to be much slower that "pro" simracers. The other sensory inputs are a factor, but most drivers adapt very fast to it. Give them enough seat time and you see them top of the charts, they are not pro real life drivers because they lack reflexes or understanding of racing dynamics.

kbirkeland 7y ago

In this case, it looks like a NASCAR spotter was the winner: https://kickinthetires.net/esports/spotter-josh-williams-upsets-the-pros-in-the-replacements-100/ https://kickinthetires.net/esports/spotter-josh-williams-ups...

thsealienbstrds 7y ago

GT Sport has a DLC-mode where you can do time trials vs. Lewis Hamilton's lap times. On a track where he clocked 1 minute 37 seconds, I was pretty shocked to find that the top 10 GT Sport players _all_ clocked lap times around 2 seconds faster than that.

saberdancer 7y ago
Whats so shocking about it? Hamilton probably spent an hour or so for each of those laps, maybe less. Top 10 guys spend days or weeks doing it.
- thsealienbstrds 7y ago
  Yeah it makes sense when you think about it, but the first time you see it you're like wtf.