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> The lockdown is in effect and the moment it's taken down, we'll see a second wave. No? Who knows, I think they have no idea and are just keeping things as th

> The lockdown is in effect and the moment it's taken down, we'll see a second wave. No? Who knows, I think they have no idea and are just keeping things as they are to avoid having Wuhan in the news. Would make awful press to admit to any new cases in Wuhan. Are other major metropolises locked down similarly? Beijing, Shanghai? In general, is it credible that China has had no new cases other than those so called "imported from outside"? Sounds like propaganda to me.

vkou 7y ago
> I think they have no idea and are just keeping things as they are to avoid having Wuhan in the news. Would make awful press to admit to any new cases in Wuhan. Or they might actually care about people dying.
- foota 7y ago
  Some parts and people of the Chinese government certainly care about people dying. The Chinese government in general however is currently interning and possibly worse millions of Uighur Muslims.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    If they didn't care, they could've just killed them all instead of spending effort on indoctrinating them. The Chinese government does understand proportionality. Wrongthink is countered with thought policing, not genocide.
  - vkou 7y ago
    And the American government in general killed half a million Iraqis, and imprisons millions of African Americans, and, and, and - yet... Those facts are completely irrelevant to the conversation about what the government's motives for its handling of COVID-19 are. Most of us restrain ourselves from bringing them up in every discussion of American domestic policy. It's off-topic, it invites a bunch of whataboutism, and it baits nationalistic arguments. It's more on-topic in threads on policing, surveillance, civil rights struggles, islamophobia, etc.
    - yorwba 7y ago
      I think it might be a good idea to avoid bringing up facts you yourself consider irrelevant. EDIT: By which I mean, cut it from the front of your comment, which seems to be getting better with every edit.
    - foota 7y ago
      I fail to see how "might actively be murdering and imprisoning innocent people" is an invalid counterpoint to "wants to save lives". I would accept the same argument if someone were to suggest that the US releasing low security prisoners during this crisis were done to relieve the burden of imprisonment on minorities, when it would clearly be done primarily to prevent the prison population from becoming massively infected.
  - dang 7y ago
    "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
DarthGhandi 7y ago
> Are other major metropolises locked down similarly? Beijing, Shanghai? Kuala Lumpur has all unessential services and schools closed. Supermarkets are open. People aren't allowed outside apart from going to work or the shops. Police are enforcing this and they've brought in the Army to help stop people spending time in parks.
johnchristopher 7y ago
Even so, three days without casualties doesn't seem enough to me for any country to declare they are out of the woods.
harmmonica 7y ago
Think it's worth reading this thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22593771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22593771) from a few days ago and in particular watching the whole Nanjing video. If it is accurate (or was accurate (because from other commenters the restrictions are loosening daily)), you can really get a sense of how extraordinary the Chinese efforts to combat this have been. Nanjing is a city of 8M people so roughly the size of Wuhan. I came away from it thinking that the numbers coming out of China could very well be credible given how strict movement/social distancing/etc is/has been. Of course that is not Wuhan, which is why the stricter lockdown still going on in Wuhan would seem to make sense (but I can't vouch for the authenticity of any of this).
vanniv 7y ago
This is the thing that is so crazy about the economic suicide and authoritarian lockdowns we are all doing. Evidence from China and Italy is that they don't actually work. It's been three months, and China still can't let people leave their front door or the virus will return full force, with no expectations that another month or even another year of lockdown will help. In Italy, with two weeks of lockdown, the exponential growth of new infections hasn't even slowed. Now they are predicting that "just three more weeks" and the exponential growth might start to slightly decline. Wealth and freedom are declining around the world, but it doesn't even slow the virus' spread. Meanwhile, places like Korea have no trouble stopping the virus without the authoritarianism. And yet, all people here call for is ever-more economic destruction, and ever more authoritarian controls, all to no detectable effect. Except, of course, the end of our free and prosperous societies.
- ksk 7y ago
  What other method do you propose, and how do you know it would work?
  - natmaka 7y ago
    I hardly know how to tackle the current ordeal, however in order to prevent such disaster we may quit living in highly densely populated areas, and decentralize power in order to let local people react adequately.
    - ksk 7y ago
      How do you simultaneously decentralize power right down to the local level, and then tell people to do as you say, or even expect everyone to co-operate on a common goal? All it takes is one group having extremely different ideas to break the cohesion. Its just wishful thinking IMHO. Anti-vaxers can only come about when one is granted the autonomy of parenting ones child and making decisions about their immunizations.
      - natmaka 7y ago
natmaka 7y ago
I'm French and live in Shanghai since 201708. There was no lockdown. Everyone wears a mask in public places, this is mandatory. Before entering many/most buildings (private or public) your body temperature is measured. In most private compounds non-resident people cannot enter without a solid reason. Schools are closed. A gym I know was closed for weeks and restarted at the beginning of March in restricted mode (no group class, simultaneous private courses are under quota, masks are mandatory at all times...), and restrictions are progressively lifted (reduced group classes will soon restart...).
- nojvek 7y ago
  It baffles me how everyone in China has a mask but we can’t even fulfill masks in the US for doctors and nurses. Something is seriously wrong here.

vkou 7y ago

> I think they have no idea and are just keeping things as they are to avoid having Wuhan in the news. Would make awful press to admit to any new cases in Wuhan. Or they might actually care about people dying.

foota 7y ago
Some parts and people of the Chinese government certainly care about people dying. The Chinese government in general however is currently interning and possibly worse millions of Uighur Muslims.
- yorwba 7y ago
  If they didn't care, they could've just killed them all instead of spending effort on indoctrinating them. The Chinese government does understand proportionality. Wrongthink is countered with thought policing, not genocide.
- vkou 7y ago
  And the American government in general killed half a million Iraqis, and imprisons millions of African Americans, and, and, and - yet... Those facts are completely irrelevant to the conversation about what the government's motives for its handling of COVID-19 are. Most of us restrain ourselves from bringing them up in every discussion of American domestic policy. It's off-topic, it invites a bunch of whataboutism, and it baits nationalistic arguments. It's more on-topic in threads on policing, surveillance, civil rights struggles, islamophobia, etc.
  - yorwba 7y ago
    I think it might be a good idea to avoid bringing up facts you yourself consider irrelevant. EDIT: By which I mean, cut it from the front of your comment, which seems to be getting better with every edit.
  - foota 7y ago
    I fail to see how "might actively be murdering and imprisoning innocent people" is an invalid counterpoint to "wants to save lives". I would accept the same argument if someone were to suggest that the US releasing low security prisoners during this crisis were done to relieve the burden of imprisonment on minorities, when it would clearly be done primarily to prevent the prison population from becoming massively infected.
- dang 7y ago
  "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

DarthGhandi 7y ago

> Are other major metropolises locked down similarly? Beijing, Shanghai? Kuala Lumpur has all unessential services and schools closed. Supermarkets are open. People aren't allowed outside apart from going to work or the shops. Police are enforcing this and they've brought in the Army to help stop people spending time in parks.

johnchristopher 7y ago

Even so, three days without casualties doesn't seem enough to me for any country to declare they are out of the woods.

harmmonica 7y ago

Think it's worth reading this thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22593771 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22593771) from a few days ago and in particular watching the whole Nanjing video. If it is accurate (or was accurate (because from other commenters the restrictions are loosening daily)), you can really get a sense of how extraordinary the Chinese efforts to combat this have been. Nanjing is a city of 8M people so roughly the size of Wuhan. I came away from it thinking that the numbers coming out of China could very well be credible given how strict movement/social distancing/etc is/has been. Of course that is not Wuhan, which is why the stricter lockdown still going on in Wuhan would seem to make sense (but I can't vouch for the authenticity of any of this).

vanniv 7y ago

This is the thing that is so crazy about the economic suicide and authoritarian lockdowns we are all doing. Evidence from China and Italy is that they don't actually work. It's been three months, and China still can't let people leave their front door or the virus will return full force, with no expectations that another month or even another year of lockdown will help. In Italy, with two weeks of lockdown, the exponential growth of new infections hasn't even slowed. Now they are predicting that "just three more weeks" and the exponential growth might start to slightly decline. Wealth and freedom are declining around the world, but it doesn't even slow the virus' spread. Meanwhile, places like Korea have no trouble stopping the virus without the authoritarianism. And yet, all people here call for is ever-more economic destruction, and ever more authoritarian controls, all to no detectable effect. Except, of course, the end of our free and prosperous societies.

ksk 7y ago
What other method do you propose, and how do you know it would work?
- natmaka 7y ago
  I hardly know how to tackle the current ordeal, however in order to prevent such disaster we may quit living in highly densely populated areas, and decentralize power in order to let local people react adequately.
  - ksk 7y ago
    How do you simultaneously decentralize power right down to the local level, and then tell people to do as you say, or even expect everyone to co-operate on a common goal? All it takes is one group having extremely different ideas to break the cohesion. Its just wishful thinking IMHO. Anti-vaxers can only come about when one is granted the autonomy of parenting ones child and making decisions about their immunizations.
    - natmaka 7y ago

natmaka 7y ago

I'm French and live in Shanghai since 201708. There was no lockdown. Everyone wears a mask in public places, this is mandatory. Before entering many/most buildings (private or public) your body temperature is measured. In most private compounds non-resident people cannot enter without a solid reason. Schools are closed. A gym I know was closed for weeks and restarted at the beginning of March in restricted mode (no group class, simultaneous private courses are under quota, masks are mandatory at all times...), and restrictions are progressively lifted (reduced group classes will soon restart...).

nojvek 7y ago
It baffles me how everyone in China has a mask but we can’t even fulfill masks in the US for doctors and nurses. Something is seriously wrong here.