4 ms·

I am not sure that European countries are acting strongly enough. California and New York's shelter-in-place order includes not going to work for non-essential

I am not sure that European countries are acting strongly enough. California and New York's shelter-in-place order includes not going to work for non-essential workers. In Germany (and even in Italy until recently) people are still going to work. Also, German politicians don't want to use words like curfew ("Ausgangssperre") because of East Germany's history. There was a lot of talk if a curfew is even constitutional. EDIT: I really don't understand why this is getting downvoted. Maybe consider commenting if you disagree?

m4rtink 7y ago
In Czech Republic you can go outside only for work shopping or excecise on condition you don'c come close to anyone else. Also masks (including self made) are mandatory in public. All non essential shops are closec, borders are closed. All this is enforced and the few people who for some reason break these rules have been fined pretty heavily. Also if you are in quaratine as infected or potentially infected and go out, you might get a multi year jail sentance.
- ma2rten 7y ago
  That's pretty strong action. In California I think you could technically go to jail for going outside, but it's not enforced yet. I hope other countries follow the Czech Republic's example, otherwise many areas of the world will look like Italy soon.
- jansan 7y ago
  In my region in Germany a stupid lady who was supposed to be under quarantine caused a traffic accident. Dear god, how stupid can people be?
  - Tomte 7y ago
    She "caused" it by being there. The other driver was at fault, swerving onto the opposite direction lane and hitting her. She shouldn't have been outside, but your version of the story is preposterously wrong.
    - jansan 7y ago
      You are right, I should have written that the stupid lady was involved in an accident.
- lolc 7y ago
  I'm happy to read at least one European country is taking masks seriously. I'm not sure I'm onboard with making face-masks mandatory when going out. But if it were limited to stores and public transport I'd be all for it! It hurts reading government publications here that advise against mask usage. They say that masks don't offer protection when in actuality they're scared of increasing demand for masks which would endanger people working in hospitals. The Czech example of allowing self-made masks is a hands-on solution!
luckylion 7y ago
> There was a lot of talk if a curfew is even constitutional. This is the main reason, imho. And enforcement is a large issue. What are you going to do if Berliners in their usual manner just ignore everything and flock to parks en masse? Roll out the riot police against unarmed, peaceful citizens? Bring in the army? Both would look terrible, and deploying the army to police citizens would arguably be unconstitutional in a major way. Doing so would cause irreparable damage in a country where the laws have been heavily bent by the administration for the last 10 years and trust is dwindling. And if you cannot enforce a curfew, what good is decreeing it? You'll make a stand, your bluff will be called and you're left with less power. The major issue, I believe, is that Merkel is just not a leader in any way, shape or form. She's opportunistic, calculating and typically waits until the path is cleared by others to then emerge and claim she was always on the side of the debate that won, she has no vision and despises responsibility, always blaming "the circumstances" for any and all decisions (she coined "alternativlos", literally "without alternative", it's what she considers all her decisions to be - not decisions, but the only way possible). She's the worst kind of politician to have in this situation, because she has no personal authority. And being a terrible public speaker that apparently insists on writing her own speeches doesn't help either. Unfortunately, there's no obvious alternative anywhere in sight.
- cnlevy 7y ago
  Easy: You just fine every one of them 5000€, and send them home cheerfully.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    And then you'll need to enforce that. What are you going to do when people require assistance because of the current situation, throw 10k people in jail because they can't pay? Evict them from their apartments? I don't think you want to go full authoritarian when you essentially need to cooperation of the public, especially in Germany that has had it's run-ins with authoritarian, totalitarian governments. Sure, you can station armed soldiers on any street and tell them to shoot if somebody shows their face ... but you might find that you've done more damage to society than an overwhelmed health system during an pandemic could have done.

m4rtink 7y ago

In Czech Republic you can go outside only for work shopping or excecise on condition you don'c come close to anyone else. Also masks (including self made) are mandatory in public. All non essential shops are closec, borders are closed. All this is enforced and the few people who for some reason break these rules have been fined pretty heavily. Also if you are in quaratine as infected or potentially infected and go out, you might get a multi year jail sentance.

ma2rten 7y ago
That's pretty strong action. In California I think you could technically go to jail for going outside, but it's not enforced yet. I hope other countries follow the Czech Republic's example, otherwise many areas of the world will look like Italy soon.
jansan 7y ago
In my region in Germany a stupid lady who was supposed to be under quarantine caused a traffic accident. Dear god, how stupid can people be?
- Tomte 7y ago
  She "caused" it by being there. The other driver was at fault, swerving onto the opposite direction lane and hitting her. She shouldn't have been outside, but your version of the story is preposterously wrong.
  - jansan 7y ago
    You are right, I should have written that the stupid lady was involved in an accident.
lolc 7y ago
I'm happy to read at least one European country is taking masks seriously. I'm not sure I'm onboard with making face-masks mandatory when going out. But if it were limited to stores and public transport I'd be all for it! It hurts reading government publications here that advise against mask usage. They say that masks don't offer protection when in actuality they're scared of increasing demand for masks which would endanger people working in hospitals. The Czech example of allowing self-made masks is a hands-on solution!

luckylion 7y ago

> There was a lot of talk if a curfew is even constitutional. This is the main reason, imho. And enforcement is a large issue. What are you going to do if Berliners in their usual manner just ignore everything and flock to parks en masse? Roll out the riot police against unarmed, peaceful citizens? Bring in the army? Both would look terrible, and deploying the army to police citizens would arguably be unconstitutional in a major way. Doing so would cause irreparable damage in a country where the laws have been heavily bent by the administration for the last 10 years and trust is dwindling. And if you cannot enforce a curfew, what good is decreeing it? You'll make a stand, your bluff will be called and you're left with less power. The major issue, I believe, is that Merkel is just not a leader in any way, shape or form. She's opportunistic, calculating and typically waits until the path is cleared by others to then emerge and claim she was always on the side of the debate that won, she has no vision and despises responsibility, always blaming "the circumstances" for any and all decisions (she coined "alternativlos", literally "without alternative", it's what she considers all her decisions to be - not decisions, but the only way possible). She's the worst kind of politician to have in this situation, because she has no personal authority. And being a terrible public speaker that apparently insists on writing her own speeches doesn't help either. Unfortunately, there's no obvious alternative anywhere in sight.

cnlevy 7y ago
Easy: You just fine every one of them 5000€, and send them home cheerfully.
- luckylion 7y ago
  And then you'll need to enforce that. What are you going to do when people require assistance because of the current situation, throw 10k people in jail because they can't pay? Evict them from their apartments? I don't think you want to go full authoritarian when you essentially need to cooperation of the public, especially in Germany that has had it's run-ins with authoritarian, totalitarian governments. Sure, you can station armed soldiers on any street and tell them to shoot if somebody shows their face ... but you might find that you've done more damage to society than an overwhelmed health system during an pandemic could have done.