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I agree with what you're saying but then there's the other example of Asian countries that are not China, who have flattened the exponential curve without force

by knocte 7y ago

I agree with what you're saying but then there's the other example of Asian countries that are not China, who have flattened the exponential curve without forced lockdowns. Governments in the west should just speedup mass production of masks because this is IMO the key to this flattening (and even if they still prefer forced lockdown, masks would be a good measure for when the lockdown is lifted).

aledalgrande 7y ago
I think the key is massive testing and ability to track cases fast and efficiently. If we could do that in the West, people could go out tomorrow. Perfection would be self testing at home, with self reporting on a gov website. But we're faaar from that...
archi42 7y ago
I agree with you: We could have impactful measures without a forced lockdown. However, people in these other countries, did they act like usual or did they practice a strict regime of (voluntary) social distancing? After all, as long as the data is lacking, social distancing is one of the most simple, yet impactful measures. This makes a huge difference. Though I am seeing a non-negligible portion of the population believing they could just act as if nothing happened. I know it sucks, but not meeting people for a while isn't the end of the world. And it would be easily possible without any laws, giving law- & policy-makers time to gather data and make a better, well-informed decision. I see this (voluntary, not-enforced-via-the-law-like-this-lockdown) as my democratic responsibility. Edit: I see two interpretations for this lockdown: 1. "Shit, this is out of control and oh god, plenty of our people will die". (as a side note, the parties in power tend to be strong with the elderly; though I believe this isn't a major factor for this decision) 2. "Oh, what a nice chance to fk democracy and get more power". I'm tending to the 1., as long as the measures are not enacted for too long. Problem is: Relaxing too early will be bad for the people, relaxing to late will bad for getting re-elected. So I'm very happy right now I didn't enter politics. (end edit) Also, the government can't just ramp up mask production. You need raw materials for that, factories, a supply chain. You need to make sure the masks are safe to various standards, else - even if you're the government - you're in a huge legal mess. Oh, and train people for all that. Germany isn't strictly free market economy, but it's not too far away from that ("social market economy"). And under that system, the state isn't meant to spontaneously interfere massively with markets by becoming a producer. So if they did, that would open just another pandoras box. Yes, we have food and other critical supplies, but masks and other medical equipment is a wholly different league. The "ruleset" is too complex, there is no obviously best decision right now :(

by knocte 7y ago

aledalgrande 7y ago

I think the key is massive testing and ability to track cases fast and efficiently. If we could do that in the West, people could go out tomorrow. Perfection would be self testing at home, with self reporting on a gov website. But we're faaar from that...

archi42 7y ago

I agree with you: We could have impactful measures without a forced lockdown. However, people in these other countries, did they act like usual or did they practice a strict regime of (voluntary) social distancing? After all, as long as the data is lacking, social distancing is one of the most simple, yet impactful measures. This makes a huge difference. Though I am seeing a non-negligible portion of the population believing they could just act as if nothing happened. I know it sucks, but not meeting people for a while isn't the end of the world. And it would be easily possible without any laws, giving law- & policy-makers time to gather data and make a better, well-informed decision. I see this (voluntary, not-enforced-via-the-law-like-this-lockdown) as my democratic responsibility. Edit: I see two interpretations for this lockdown: 1. "Shit, this is out of control and oh god, plenty of our people will die". (as a side note, the parties in power tend to be strong with the elderly; though I believe this isn't a major factor for this decision) 2. "Oh, what a nice chance to fk democracy and get more power". I'm tending to the 1., as long as the measures are not enacted for too long. Problem is: Relaxing too early will be bad for the people, relaxing to late will bad for getting re-elected. So I'm very happy right now I didn't enter politics. (end edit) Also, the government can't just ramp up mask production. You need raw materials for that, factories, a supply chain. You need to make sure the masks are safe to various standards, else - even if you're the government - you're in a huge legal mess. Oh, and train people for all that. Germany isn't strictly free market economy, but it's not too far away from that ("social market economy"). And under that system, the state isn't meant to spontaneously interfere massively with markets by becoming a producer. So if they did, that would open just another pandoras box. Yes, we have food and other critical supplies, but masks and other medical equipment is a wholly different league. The "ruleset" is too complex, there is no obviously best decision right now :(