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I read an interesting article describing how cultural factors are affecting virus spreading. Among many things, the family configuration is radically different

I read an interesting article describing how cultural factors are affecting virus spreading. Among many things, the family configuration is radically different in Germany than in Italy or Spain and this is one of the key factors (besides Germany being able to buy and execute tests to confine who needed to be confined in time). It looks like many Italians (also many Spaniards but not so many) live with their parents even when they are 30-40 years old. In addition, many grandparents take care of children in daily or regular basis. This means that very socially active slices of society are in constant contact with the the population which is most at risk.

superzamp 7y ago
That would be an interesting factor, do you still have the link to the article?
- rihegher 7y ago
  https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/03/20/actualidad/1584729408_422864.html https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/03/20/actualidad/1584729408...
- pachico 7y ago
  I also found this related to the same: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/el-mundo/los-fuertes-lazos-entre-abuelos-y-nietos-un-factor-de-la-alta-letalidad-nid2346106/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/el-mundo/lo...
baxtr 7y ago
Very interesting. In Germany, many deaths occurred in retirement homes...
nemo44x 7y ago
So far the median age of German cases is 47. It is 63 for Italy. Also, Germany isn’t doing postmortem testing on people that are dying from preexisting conditions that could be suspicious. Italy has tested corpses that weren’t initially tested. Global numbers are so tough to compare with different countries testing differently, reporting differently, and of course demographic differences.
- pachico 7y ago
  Very true. Each country is following also different policies. I personally know a few people that are infected in Spain but have not been officially tested so they don't make part of any statistic.
  - knocte 7y ago
    If they have not been officially tested, how do you know they are infected? It's not enough to have symptoms; I myself had several symptoms about a month ago, but they didn't test me because they were not enough symptoms and I didn't have a travel history to mainland China, so then I still don't know if I was actually infected or it was just a flu.
    - pachico 7y ago
      It is what the doctors told them. Also considering they have been in direct contact with officially tested infected people. Young people with very hard breathing difficulties (for the first time in their life), fever, muscular and bone pain, etc. Btw, the doctors call them at least once a day but they are confined at home.
    - user5994461 7y ago
      The differentiating question might be did you have a running nose? If yes, it's not the coronavirus.
      - willbw 7y ago
        WHO says "very few" people will get a running nose, but that is not equivalent to saying you do not have the virus if you have a running nose. I'd be careful saying blanket statements like this
- ma2rten 7y ago
  Why do they test people who are dead already? Given the shortage of tests, wouldn't it more sense to test people who are alive?
op03 7y ago
Interesting point. But maybe there is also difference in air travel/contact between Germany/Italy/Spain and China.
ohlookabird 7y ago
There was an additional interesting cultural correlation I heard: there are more cases in the south and south-west of Germany plus a slightly outlier in Hamburg layer. This matches apparently when there are winter holidays in schools (different in each state in Germany) and the fact the generally skiing is more popular in the south, were many people would travel to the Alps, including northern Italy, for vacation. This could possibly mean that more people from these regions brought the virus back home.
- jaynetics 7y ago
  There are more explanations. Karneval/Fasching/Fasnacht celebrations are hugely popular in the South and West and virtually inexistent in the North and East. The east is generally poorer (so easterners travel less) and has less popular tourist destinations - except Berlin, which has been hit badly enough.
  - cf0ed2aa-bdf5 7y ago
    Also, if you compare the map of corona cases with population density maps of Germany you will see a strong correlation.
    - TheGallopedHigh 7y ago
      That’s essentially saying where there is more people there is more virus; which is close to a tautology.
      - cf0ed2aa-bdf5 7y ago
        Not a tautology but yes, that is essentially what I am saying. I just found it weird that people seem to be focusing on all sorts of factors like family structure, median income, winter holidays, Fasching/Karneval celebrations etc (which of course also play a role) while completely ignoring that higher population density facilitates the spread of a novel virus.
- luckylion 7y ago
officialjunk 7y ago
most live together with multiple generations in china too.
tarkin2 7y ago
The Spanish and Italians also kiss each other on greeting.
- marton78 7y ago
  Bavarians do that too.
  - TrueTom 7y ago
    Except they don't?
- droidist2 7y ago
  And in many Asian countries they bow. Maybe that's one reason countries like South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore were able to slow down the spread so quickly.
netsharc 7y ago
Ah, so one could draw a link to the single currency. The single currency is basically European countries tethering theirs to the Deutschmark, which is great for Germany, but disastrous for the others. So, economic boom for Germany, kids can afford to live away from their parents. Economic hardship for others (remember "PIIGS"?) mean kids have been living with their parents more... Before people downvote me for being kooky conspiracy theory, read: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2012/0924/Euro-crisis-spurs-Italy-s-big-baby-boom-grown-children-living-with-parents https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2012/0924/Euro-crisis... and: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro-is-a-disaster-stiglitz-krugman-milton-friedman-and-james-tobin-agree/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro...
- luckylion 7y ago
  The conspiracy part of it is that you're fundamentally misunderstanding German society. Exporting to European countries (and the world) is great for shareholders and they've made a lot of money. It's not so much so for the average worker, and they aren't earning a lot more in real money. The jobs are in the cities, the rents are rising very quickly, the taxes are high and there's very little individual wealth for the middle class. There's no "economic boom" that would enable large parts of the German society to live comfortably, and it may come as a surprise, but trickle-down isn't working in Germany either.
buboard 7y ago
Indeed i worry that these measures on the south don't work because of this: https://i.imgur.com/AuTw89a.png https://i.imgur.com/AuTw89a.png Physical distance is a major determinant, as people naturally in times of crisis tend to stick together or even visit their parents more often.

superzamp 7y ago

That would be an interesting factor, do you still have the link to the article?

rihegher 7y ago
https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/03/20/actualidad/1584729408_422864.html https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020/03/20/actualidad/1584729408...
pachico 7y ago
I also found this related to the same: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/el-mundo/los-fuertes-lazos-entre-abuelos-y-nietos-un-factor-de-la-alta-letalidad-nid2346106/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lanacion.com.ar/el-mundo/lo...

baxtr 7y ago

Very interesting. In Germany, many deaths occurred in retirement homes...

nemo44x 7y ago

So far the median age of German cases is 47. It is 63 for Italy. Also, Germany isn’t doing postmortem testing on people that are dying from preexisting conditions that could be suspicious. Italy has tested corpses that weren’t initially tested. Global numbers are so tough to compare with different countries testing differently, reporting differently, and of course demographic differences.

pachico 7y ago
Very true. Each country is following also different policies. I personally know a few people that are infected in Spain but have not been officially tested so they don't make part of any statistic.
- knocte 7y ago
  If they have not been officially tested, how do you know they are infected? It's not enough to have symptoms; I myself had several symptoms about a month ago, but they didn't test me because they were not enough symptoms and I didn't have a travel history to mainland China, so then I still don't know if I was actually infected or it was just a flu.
  - pachico 7y ago
    It is what the doctors told them. Also considering they have been in direct contact with officially tested infected people. Young people with very hard breathing difficulties (for the first time in their life), fever, muscular and bone pain, etc. Btw, the doctors call them at least once a day but they are confined at home.
  - user5994461 7y ago
    The differentiating question might be did you have a running nose? If yes, it's not the coronavirus.
    - willbw 7y ago
      WHO says "very few" people will get a running nose, but that is not equivalent to saying you do not have the virus if you have a running nose. I'd be careful saying blanket statements like this
ma2rten 7y ago
Why do they test people who are dead already? Given the shortage of tests, wouldn't it more sense to test people who are alive?

op03 7y ago

Interesting point. But maybe there is also difference in air travel/contact between Germany/Italy/Spain and China.

ohlookabird 7y ago

There was an additional interesting cultural correlation I heard: there are more cases in the south and south-west of Germany plus a slightly outlier in Hamburg layer. This matches apparently when there are winter holidays in schools (different in each state in Germany) and the fact the generally skiing is more popular in the south, were many people would travel to the Alps, including northern Italy, for vacation. This could possibly mean that more people from these regions brought the virus back home.

jaynetics 7y ago
There are more explanations. Karneval/Fasching/Fasnacht celebrations are hugely popular in the South and West and virtually inexistent in the North and East. The east is generally poorer (so easterners travel less) and has less popular tourist destinations - except Berlin, which has been hit badly enough.
- cf0ed2aa-bdf5 7y ago
  Also, if you compare the map of corona cases with population density maps of Germany you will see a strong correlation.
  - TheGallopedHigh 7y ago
    That’s essentially saying where there is more people there is more virus; which is close to a tautology.
    - cf0ed2aa-bdf5 7y ago
      Not a tautology but yes, that is essentially what I am saying. I just found it weird that people seem to be focusing on all sorts of factors like family structure, median income, winter holidays, Fasching/Karneval celebrations etc (which of course also play a role) while completely ignoring that higher population density facilitates the spread of a novel virus.
luckylion 7y ago

officialjunk 7y ago

most live together with multiple generations in china too.

tarkin2 7y ago

The Spanish and Italians also kiss each other on greeting.

marton78 7y ago
Bavarians do that too.
- TrueTom 7y ago
  Except they don't?
droidist2 7y ago
And in many Asian countries they bow. Maybe that's one reason countries like South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore were able to slow down the spread so quickly.

netsharc 7y ago

Ah, so one could draw a link to the single currency. The single currency is basically European countries tethering theirs to the Deutschmark, which is great for Germany, but disastrous for the others. So, economic boom for Germany, kids can afford to live away from their parents. Economic hardship for others (remember "PIIGS"?) mean kids have been living with their parents more... Before people downvote me for being kooky conspiracy theory, read: https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2012/0924/Euro-crisis-spurs-Italy-s-big-baby-boom-grown-children-living-with-parents https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2012/0924/Euro-crisis... and: https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro-is-a-disaster-stiglitz-krugman-milton-friedman-and-james-tobin-agree/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2016/09/11/the-euro...

luckylion 7y ago
The conspiracy part of it is that you're fundamentally misunderstanding German society. Exporting to European countries (and the world) is great for shareholders and they've made a lot of money. It's not so much so for the average worker, and they aren't earning a lot more in real money. The jobs are in the cities, the rents are rising very quickly, the taxes are high and there's very little individual wealth for the middle class. There's no "economic boom" that would enable large parts of the German society to live comfortably, and it may come as a surprise, but trickle-down isn't working in Germany either.

buboard 7y ago

Indeed i worry that these measures on the south don't work because of this: https://i.imgur.com/AuTw89a.png https://i.imgur.com/AuTw89a.png Physical distance is a major determinant, as people naturally in times of crisis tend to stick together or even visit their parents more often.