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If you have a way of measuring your body fat to a reasonable degree of accuracy, you can ration your food by knowing how much stored body fat your body can conv

If you have a way of measuring your body fat to a reasonable degree of accuracy, you can ration your food by knowing how much stored body fat your body can convert into energy per day. Your body can convert roughly 0.9% of your body fat into energy in a day. So if you're 180lbs with 33% body fat, you have 60 lbs of fat on you. You should be able to convert ~0.54lbs into energy, which at ~3500 kcal per lbs comes out to 1890 kcal being the maximum calorie deficit you can overcome with just stored body fat. Subtract that from your daily calorie expenditure (another messy estimate) to get how many calories you need to consume to avoid muscle breakdown and energy crashes. Keep in mind that every person's body and metabolic system is unique so you'll want to put in a generous error buffer. I'd cut the calorie deficit by half, at least to start with. Also notice that each day your total stored body fat will be less, so the number of calories your body can extract from that stored fat will also be less. Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15615615/

RobertRoberts 7y ago
I've discussed my weight loss hear before, but I want to reiterate that when I was "trying" to lose weight, I only ate one medium/light meal a day. Ran about 2 miles a day (3 by the end) and still only lost 15 lbs in one month of this. If people are frugal/miserly with their meals and careful starting now, and have long lasting food, we can live a long time. Side note: After this experience, I've been eating one meal a day for about 2 years now. (I am a desk jockey so I don't need much) I can control my weight, and I eat more if I need it, and less if I don't.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  I don't think I've discussed my weight before here. I once lost 65lbs over 8 months by eating two small meals a day. I went "cold turkey" in to that diet, and the first week sucked, but I got through it. I transitioned to a normal diet after that and maintained my weight for a year and half until I got a job that stressed me out and I stress-ate. I got sick a month ago (symptoms unlrelated to COVID) and couldn't keep food down. I used that opportunity to transition again to a very-low-calorie diet once I got better. Being sick made the transition much easier (no hunger pains). I already feel better after one month. I think I can pull this off again for another 8 months and get to the top-end of the recommended weight range for my height. Here's to looking forward to the months ahead (I suppliment with multivitamin and magnesium/zinc suppliments).
  - RobertRoberts 7y ago
    One thing that helps me to this day is to remember that being hungry is normal. When people are hungry for something they have drive and are motivated. I find being hungry every day (for at least an hour or two) before my single meal makes my food taste so much better. I experiment with very light mid day meals at times. Nothing more than 2 fried eggs and maybe some saute'd onions with it. (I am hunger an hour or after eating this, so it doesn't disrupt my eating patterns) I hope you do well with your weight control. It sounds like you have a great start on things.
    - RandomBacon 7y ago
      Thank you. Prior to this (a few months ago), I noticed that I was overeating just to maintain the feeling of being full/stuffed. I knew that was unhealthy, but I just wanted to feel good because I was going through probably the highest-stress time of my life. Luckily things are much better now. Even with this virus going around, I should be pretty well off. On this new attempt, the only time the hunger seems to become annoying is in the late evening. My solution: go to bed. I can't be hungry if I'm asleep, and when I wake up, I can eat my first meal. It's going to take some mental adjustments, but I think I'll be able to adjust to not noticing minor hunger and not desiring the feeling of being full.
johntiger1 7y ago
Are you certain it only subtracts from fat? From my understanding, you will also lose muscle too (especially without exercise)
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  The body has a very strong preference for burning fat rather than muscle. Breaking down muscle for energy is a last resort. The reason why conventional wisdom says you can't lose fat without losing muscle is because most diets put the dieter into a larger calorie deficit than the body can support through burning stored body fat. The 0.9% number is very important here. Go over it, and yes, your body will try to find energy elsewhere which includes your muscles. That's why I said to start with a 50% margin of safety. Also it's important to keep in mind that the body isn't a set of binary switches. There are many feedback loops, buffers, and redundant systems beyond the simple model I presented, which is another reason to not go 100% on this. 50% though will help ration food out for a longer period of time without getting into a situation at the end of the crisis period with too large of a calorie deficit to function properly or to prevent muscle breakdown.
Zenst 7y ago
That's based upon normal metabolism and if you calorie reduce your metabolisim will also slow down, you also need vitamins to help the body work and some will be need to break down fat into energy. Vitamins and minerals are not something you can reduce without effect/impact. So do factor that into any calorie reduction. This and body fat only goes so far and as a metric is often flawed in measurement as any rugby or certain sports physics can attest. This is large muscle mass often mess's up those scale calculations and with that, many a fit muscular person will fall into the obese box as muscle weighs more than fat. Also it's not just fat that gets broken down into energy, muscle is affected as well. As everything it is a fine balance. Given all that, eating normal alternate days is a safer approach for many.
- dean177 7y ago
  > muscle weighs more than fat On average, the density of fat is 0.9 g/mL, while the density of muscle is 1.1 g/mL. It’s just not that much
  - Zenst 7y ago
    Sure on average but whilst that is often bounded about, most people are not average. Bit like having 10 people with shoe sizes of 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 so you go, the average size is 8.5 and proceed to make 10 pairs of 8.5 size shoes. Gets down to knowing yourself and how much that differentiates from the average and adjusting accordingly. Alas many look at average and work with that, so somebody small who needs may think the average alcohol limit is X, so I can drink X and still be legal to drive and yet as they are smaller, find their blood volume less and the alcohol to blood level is higher than that average and tada, drunk drives without realising as they thought they had stayed under the average limit. Averages used as a literal are dangerous, they need to be treated as a guideline by people when applying them to themselves, can't stipulate that enough. [EDIT a grammar I spotted]
    - dean177 7y ago
      The variance for muscle density is considerably smaller than the variance in shoe size. https://itis.swiss/virtual-population/tissue-properties/database/density/ https://itis.swiss/virtual-population/tissue-properties/data... In this case the average alone is representative of the population without any additional qualifications. Please don’t drink and drive.
robocat 7y ago
You could do that, but it is dangerous to do so during an epidemic. Having body fat helps you if you get very sick. Having low body fat means you are at a higher risk of death when your body has to fight off disease. Being very underweight increases your risk of catching diseases. Of course, being excessively obese has other risks. I am not a doctor (although anyone blindly following internet advice needs to be careful!)
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  There's a lot of space between obesity and underweight. What's being discussed here is use of excess stored body fat to extend one's food supply without impacting muscle mass or cognitive function. Perhaps I should have added the recommended minimum body fat levels but anyone getting near those levels would be unable to get an appreciable number of calories from stored bodyfat anyway, defeating the purpose of using body fat for food supply extension.
- pengaru 7y ago
  The average American has a long way to go before reaching "very underweight".
programmertote 7y ago
Regarding losing weight by calorie deficit, I'd like to suggest an alternative solution that does not require knowing your body fat percentage. First, start estimating how many calories you need per day on credible sites like [1]. Then, buy a scale, measure it twice everyday--first, in morning when you wake up (and peed) and second, right before you sleep. The subtract these two and get an approximate drop in weight (for me, it's usually 1-1.2 lbs over night for average type of food that I eat). Use that to approximate how much food you should eat in the evening and what type of food you should eat so that you can reach your weight goal. Keep adjusting your portion of food (start from the portion size that will fill you up until your next meal) over the next 10 days to see which one keeps your weight under check or make it go lower. I have lost 20 lbs between Dec '19 and end of Feb '20 just by doing this. In summary, measuring your weight diligently (just twice a day or even once a day in the morning if you want) is a good enough start to lose weight. [1] https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary-guidelines/guidelines/appendix-2/ https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary...
chrononaut 7y ago
As an aside, it is striking that we are discussing this strategy on this forum and that it's actually decently-accepted advice given the current context. What a world ahead of us all.

RobertRoberts 7y ago

I've discussed my weight loss hear before, but I want to reiterate that when I was "trying" to lose weight, I only ate one medium/light meal a day. Ran about 2 miles a day (3 by the end) and still only lost 15 lbs in one month of this. If people are frugal/miserly with their meals and careful starting now, and have long lasting food, we can live a long time. Side note: After this experience, I've been eating one meal a day for about 2 years now. (I am a desk jockey so I don't need much) I can control my weight, and I eat more if I need it, and less if I don't.

RandomBacon 7y ago
I don't think I've discussed my weight before here. I once lost 65lbs over 8 months by eating two small meals a day. I went "cold turkey" in to that diet, and the first week sucked, but I got through it. I transitioned to a normal diet after that and maintained my weight for a year and half until I got a job that stressed me out and I stress-ate. I got sick a month ago (symptoms unlrelated to COVID) and couldn't keep food down. I used that opportunity to transition again to a very-low-calorie diet once I got better. Being sick made the transition much easier (no hunger pains). I already feel better after one month. I think I can pull this off again for another 8 months and get to the top-end of the recommended weight range for my height. Here's to looking forward to the months ahead (I suppliment with multivitamin and magnesium/zinc suppliments).
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  One thing that helps me to this day is to remember that being hungry is normal. When people are hungry for something they have drive and are motivated. I find being hungry every day (for at least an hour or two) before my single meal makes my food taste so much better. I experiment with very light mid day meals at times. Nothing more than 2 fried eggs and maybe some saute'd onions with it. (I am hunger an hour or after eating this, so it doesn't disrupt my eating patterns) I hope you do well with your weight control. It sounds like you have a great start on things.
  - RandomBacon 7y ago
    Thank you. Prior to this (a few months ago), I noticed that I was overeating just to maintain the feeling of being full/stuffed. I knew that was unhealthy, but I just wanted to feel good because I was going through probably the highest-stress time of my life. Luckily things are much better now. Even with this virus going around, I should be pretty well off. On this new attempt, the only time the hunger seems to become annoying is in the late evening. My solution: go to bed. I can't be hungry if I'm asleep, and when I wake up, I can eat my first meal. It's going to take some mental adjustments, but I think I'll be able to adjust to not noticing minor hunger and not desiring the feeling of being full.

johntiger1 7y ago

Are you certain it only subtracts from fat? From my understanding, you will also lose muscle too (especially without exercise)

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
The body has a very strong preference for burning fat rather than muscle. Breaking down muscle for energy is a last resort. The reason why conventional wisdom says you can't lose fat without losing muscle is because most diets put the dieter into a larger calorie deficit than the body can support through burning stored body fat. The 0.9% number is very important here. Go over it, and yes, your body will try to find energy elsewhere which includes your muscles. That's why I said to start with a 50% margin of safety. Also it's important to keep in mind that the body isn't a set of binary switches. There are many feedback loops, buffers, and redundant systems beyond the simple model I presented, which is another reason to not go 100% on this. 50% though will help ration food out for a longer period of time without getting into a situation at the end of the crisis period with too large of a calorie deficit to function properly or to prevent muscle breakdown.

Zenst 7y ago

That's based upon normal metabolism and if you calorie reduce your metabolisim will also slow down, you also need vitamins to help the body work and some will be need to break down fat into energy. Vitamins and minerals are not something you can reduce without effect/impact. So do factor that into any calorie reduction. This and body fat only goes so far and as a metric is often flawed in measurement as any rugby or certain sports physics can attest. This is large muscle mass often mess's up those scale calculations and with that, many a fit muscular person will fall into the obese box as muscle weighs more than fat. Also it's not just fat that gets broken down into energy, muscle is affected as well. As everything it is a fine balance. Given all that, eating normal alternate days is a safer approach for many.

dean177 7y ago
> muscle weighs more than fat On average, the density of fat is 0.9 g/mL, while the density of muscle is 1.1 g/mL. It’s just not that much
- Zenst 7y ago
  Sure on average but whilst that is often bounded about, most people are not average. Bit like having 10 people with shoe sizes of 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 so you go, the average size is 8.5 and proceed to make 10 pairs of 8.5 size shoes. Gets down to knowing yourself and how much that differentiates from the average and adjusting accordingly. Alas many look at average and work with that, so somebody small who needs may think the average alcohol limit is X, so I can drink X and still be legal to drive and yet as they are smaller, find their blood volume less and the alcohol to blood level is higher than that average and tada, drunk drives without realising as they thought they had stayed under the average limit. Averages used as a literal are dangerous, they need to be treated as a guideline by people when applying them to themselves, can't stipulate that enough. [EDIT a grammar I spotted]
  - dean177 7y ago
    The variance for muscle density is considerably smaller than the variance in shoe size. https://itis.swiss/virtual-population/tissue-properties/database/density/ https://itis.swiss/virtual-population/tissue-properties/data... In this case the average alone is representative of the population without any additional qualifications. Please don’t drink and drive.

robocat 7y ago

You could do that, but it is dangerous to do so during an epidemic. Having body fat helps you if you get very sick. Having low body fat means you are at a higher risk of death when your body has to fight off disease. Being very underweight increases your risk of catching diseases. Of course, being excessively obese has other risks. I am not a doctor (although anyone blindly following internet advice needs to be careful!)

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
There's a lot of space between obesity and underweight. What's being discussed here is use of excess stored body fat to extend one's food supply without impacting muscle mass or cognitive function. Perhaps I should have added the recommended minimum body fat levels but anyone getting near those levels would be unable to get an appreciable number of calories from stored bodyfat anyway, defeating the purpose of using body fat for food supply extension.
pengaru 7y ago
The average American has a long way to go before reaching "very underweight".

programmertote 7y ago

Regarding losing weight by calorie deficit, I'd like to suggest an alternative solution that does not require knowing your body fat percentage. First, start estimating how many calories you need per day on credible sites like [1]. Then, buy a scale, measure it twice everyday--first, in morning when you wake up (and peed) and second, right before you sleep. The subtract these two and get an approximate drop in weight (for me, it's usually 1-1.2 lbs over night for average type of food that I eat). Use that to approximate how much food you should eat in the evening and what type of food you should eat so that you can reach your weight goal. Keep adjusting your portion of food (start from the portion size that will fill you up until your next meal) over the next 10 days to see which one keeps your weight under check or make it go lower. I have lost 20 lbs between Dec '19 and end of Feb '20 just by doing this. In summary, measuring your weight diligently (just twice a day or even once a day in the morning if you want) is a good enough start to lose weight. [1] https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary-guidelines/guidelines/appendix-2/ https://health.gov/our-work/food-nutrition/2015-2020-dietary...

chrononaut 7y ago

As an aside, it is striking that we are discussing this strategy on this forum and that it's actually decently-accepted advice given the current context. What a world ahead of us all.