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I don't understand callous contempful comments against Intel's manufacturing capabilities. There are incredible people making things possible fomr both sides in

I don't understand callous contempful comments against Intel's manufacturing capabilities. There are incredible people making things possible fomr both sides in one of the most advanced manufacturing processes in the world. I've worked inside a fab and I can tell you that the industry is much more appreciative of each other's competitors than the outside fanboys who are largely pissed off at the executive decisions (lawsuits , etc). This article is about TSMC's technical achievements and your comment has not added anything to the discussion, time and again I see this rooting for "underdog" behavior all too the same (just flipped the sides) from 2006. I wrote about it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22515546 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22515546 If you'd like to know what goes into shriking a process node from lithography standpoint, I implore you to watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gMdGrVteI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0gMdGrVteI and be in complete utter awe... Tell me if they are "Sitting on their asses"?

yason 7y ago
I don't understand callous contempful comments against Intel's manufacturing capabilities. There are incredible people making things possible fomr both sides in one of the most advanced manufacturing processes in the world. I've worked inside a fab and I can tell you that the industry is much more appreciative of each other's competitors than the outside fanboys Where did you read contemptful? The OP was merely stating a fact that Intel has lost the manufacturing race big time which is hard to refute given TSMC's progress. Sitting on their asses is just a illustrative way of saying that. It does not mean Intel people were stupid or they didn't appreciate their competing colleagues or that Intel would now be worthless. If anything it just makes more sense for a chip company to focus their efforts on designing chips and outsource manufacturing which basically is a separate business anyway -- unless they happen to have an edge also in that which Intel did have earlier.
Valmar 7y ago
Oh, please ~ Intel fucked up their 10nm process pretty hard, and they kept trying to fix it for years. They also had to keep pushing their roadmap back again and again for 10nm. This is entirely due to Intel's awful management getting in the way. Intel's engineers might be clever, but with shitty management, that can all go to waste. Intel's management have been sitting on their arses, more or less, when you consider the fact that they've really been dragging their feet in terms of progress. AMD has made more progress in 3 years than Intel has made in 10... Intel simply got too comfortable with their monopoly.
- TomVDB 7y ago
  I know that Intel has major issues with 10nm, but I don’t know exactly what went wrong. Can you educate me? I’m particularly interested in how management sabotaged the ability to get 10nm to work.
pdimitar 7y ago
I think you might be projecting because IMO everyone around here in HN knows that the engineers are doing a really good job -- but management gets in the way, all too often. So let's not conflate excellent and talented engineers with greedy shady executives whose big PR move was to publish detailed benchmarks on the last-gen AMD literally days before the current-gen AMD dropped.
pheme1 7y ago
> I can tell you that the industry is much more appreciative of each other's competitors Totally agree, back in 2012 Intel, TSMC, Samsung pool together roughly 5 billions of investment [1] in ASML to manufacture the EUV machines needed to manufacture 5nm today. [1] https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/samsung-joins-asmls-customer-co-investment-program-for-innovation-completing-the-program-(46974) https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/samsung-joins-as...
anon102010 7y ago
Reading bs release after bs release from intel about their 10nm “successes” makes you tired of their stuff. The number of times they denied problems etc

yason 7y ago

I don't understand callous contempful comments against Intel's manufacturing capabilities. There are incredible people making things possible fomr both sides in one of the most advanced manufacturing processes in the world. I've worked inside a fab and I can tell you that the industry is much more appreciative of each other's competitors than the outside fanboys Where did you read contemptful? The OP was merely stating a fact that Intel has lost the manufacturing race big time which is hard to refute given TSMC's progress. Sitting on their asses is just a illustrative way of saying that. It does not mean Intel people were stupid or they didn't appreciate their competing colleagues or that Intel would now be worthless. If anything it just makes more sense for a chip company to focus their efforts on designing chips and outsource manufacturing which basically is a separate business anyway -- unless they happen to have an edge also in that which Intel did have earlier.

Valmar 7y ago

Oh, please ~ Intel fucked up their 10nm process pretty hard, and they kept trying to fix it for years. They also had to keep pushing their roadmap back again and again for 10nm. This is entirely due to Intel's awful management getting in the way. Intel's engineers might be clever, but with shitty management, that can all go to waste. Intel's management have been sitting on their arses, more or less, when you consider the fact that they've really been dragging their feet in terms of progress. AMD has made more progress in 3 years than Intel has made in 10... Intel simply got too comfortable with their monopoly.

TomVDB 7y ago
I know that Intel has major issues with 10nm, but I don’t know exactly what went wrong. Can you educate me? I’m particularly interested in how management sabotaged the ability to get 10nm to work.

pdimitar 7y ago

I think you might be projecting because IMO everyone around here in HN knows that the engineers are doing a really good job -- but management gets in the way, all too often. So let's not conflate excellent and talented engineers with greedy shady executives whose big PR move was to publish detailed benchmarks on the last-gen AMD literally days before the current-gen AMD dropped.

pheme1 7y ago

> I can tell you that the industry is much more appreciative of each other's competitors Totally agree, back in 2012 Intel, TSMC, Samsung pool together roughly 5 billions of investment [1] in ASML to manufacture the EUV machines needed to manufacture 5nm today. [1] https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/samsung-joins-asmls-customer-co-investment-program-for-innovation-completing-the-program-(46974) https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/samsung-joins-as...

anon102010 7y ago

Reading bs release after bs release from intel about their 10nm “successes” makes you tired of their stuff. The number of times they denied problems etc