6 ms·

I dream that in post-crisis clarity, some news sources will reverse the traditional "FDA as protagonist" wording of such headlines, and instead prefer formulati

by gojomo 7y ago

I dream that in post-crisis clarity, some news sources will reverse the traditional "FDA as protagonist" wording of such headlines, and instead prefer formulations like: "FDA removes threats of fines & imprisonment for one company's point-of-care COVID-19 diagnostic"

CPLX 7y ago
How would that help improve people’s understanding of this issue?
- jdavis703 7y ago
  It’s the same reason certain folks insist automatic income tax payment schemes would cause people to forget about tax policy.
- gojomo 7y ago
  The FDA has no role in creating this test – or any other. They've just dangled a threat of prosecution over companies, hospitals, research labs, and universities who wanted to develop & use a variety of tests – including tests that have proven very useful elsewhere. When they "authorize" something, all they've really done is removed the prior threat of fines & imprisonment. This threat exists even if the thing they're holding up had little to no risk of harm or confusing anyone. (People, especially those in research labs and the medical profession, are not idiots! Even all sorts of long-approved diagnostic tests have significant errors associated that doctors & patients need to discuss & account for! This administrative-law threat exists even if traditional product liability – as applies for all sorts of other product/service/info-product category – would be more than sufficient to ensure quality, & punish recklessness. The FDA's delays have held back US testing capacity for months. The current economic disaster, & many deaths, are a direct outgrowth of both the legislation which gives them this veto-power, and their incompetent exercise of the various discretionary powers they have. They could have offered the same arbitrary waiver that they finally did, on February 29, back in last December! Even now, urgently needed medical supplies are held up, waiting for FDA inspection/certification backlogs to clear: A news story: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fda-inspections-craziness-preventing-coronavirus-response https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fda-inspections-c... Testimony from a Google employee & philanthropic investor: https://twitter.com/mekkaokereke/status/1241151194812186624 https://twitter.com/mekkaokereke/status/1241151194812186624 The FDA shouldn't get to tout themselves as doing a good thing with this "authorization" – when the risk of harm of such vitally-necessary new testing options is so small that a delay of days, much less months, is unwarranted. Let scientists, doctors, & patients experiment!
henrikschroder 7y ago
The invisible hand of the free market will get rid of snake-oil salesmen by... checks notes... magic!
- calvinmorrison 7y ago
  Yawn
- roenxi 7y ago
  The free market absolutely has the capability to control for snake-oil salesman; that is why there is a large and profitable business in reviewing items. In America the CDC was distributing snake oil in this crisis, their test kits didn't work. As the death toll rises that is going to enter free-marketing lore as a classic example of government regulation contributing to a crisis. There should have been 10 free market solutions and a CDC endorsement for the one they liked best. Depending on how this plays out we may well discover that lighter regulation would have saved literally millions of lives. Notice that as soon as a crisis hits and the government needs someone to figure out a solution their first and only tool is removing regulation. This is a powerful hint - that regulation is also retarding useful action in non-global-pandemic crisises.
  - Retric 7y ago
    There is a giant market for fake mattress reviews and a tiny market for real ones. You see the same basic paradigm across a range of industries where reviewers make more money from advertising deals than their customers. That or just early access only being handed to people with positive relationships resulting in a lot of bias. Net result, consumer reports maintained a solid reputation over time and most independents end up selling out at some point. Well that and several billion dollar snake oil companies. PS: Fill in the blank: The water cooled ultra X get’s an extra 2 FPS ___ . (meh save yor money.) or (which is so amazing!)
    - roenxi 7y ago
      I do actually respect the point your making; normally I would just leave it alone. But were mattresses really the best example? I'm trying to figure out what it would take for me to feel I'd been cheated in a mattress purchase. What does a fake mattress look like?
mrfusion 7y ago
Hacker news is extremely pro FDA. I never understood why.
- 1996 7y ago
  People fear that without some oversight, dangerous things would be sold Yet they go to the local restaurant who's preparing dishes with no special oversight ex ante, just good logic and the fear of being closed if there's an hygiene investigation ex post. For some reason, reviews can filter out bad restaurants but not drugs? Even if food can also kill? Evidence of the opposite, from darknet markets where people review drugs and sellers, is routinely ignored. But when the CDC delivers a non working test, people want more money for the CDC- so that next time, they don't deliver one non working test, but maybe 2 or 3 instead? My personal conclusion is that the "modern hacker" trust centralization and likes social control - whether it comes from government organizations, or private companies like google or facebook. Based on comments, working there would be a dream from most people here - and not just for the money. People seem to find some kind of prestige in that, for... reasons? There's a generational disconnect I think. I stopped trying to understand. When I see a movement pushing away Eric Raymond and Richard Stallman, I think it's time to stop associating with this movement, let these people make their own mistakes and hopefully learn from their failures.
  - Tomte 7y ago
    People have a choice in which restaurants they patronize. They do not have a choice in which medical devices their ER doctor uses.
    - gojomo 7y ago
      Their doctor has a choice - or should, & could with fewer barriers to competition, especially barriers against things which work just fine throughout the world.
  - omginternets 7y ago
    >Yet they go to the local restaurant who's preparing dishes with no special oversight ex ante, just good logic and the fear of being closed if there's an hygiene investigation ex post. Yes, because there are health and safety regulations in place!

by gojomo 7y ago

CPLX 7y ago

How would that help improve people’s understanding of this issue?

jdavis703 7y ago
It’s the same reason certain folks insist automatic income tax payment schemes would cause people to forget about tax policy.
gojomo 7y ago
The FDA has no role in creating this test – or any other. They've just dangled a threat of prosecution over companies, hospitals, research labs, and universities who wanted to develop & use a variety of tests – including tests that have proven very useful elsewhere. When they "authorize" something, all they've really done is removed the prior threat of fines & imprisonment. This threat exists even if the thing they're holding up had little to no risk of harm or confusing anyone. (People, especially those in research labs and the medical profession, are not idiots! Even all sorts of long-approved diagnostic tests have significant errors associated that doctors & patients need to discuss & account for! This administrative-law threat exists even if traditional product liability – as applies for all sorts of other product/service/info-product category – would be more than sufficient to ensure quality, & punish recklessness. The FDA's delays have held back US testing capacity for months. The current economic disaster, & many deaths, are a direct outgrowth of both the legislation which gives them this veto-power, and their incompetent exercise of the various discretionary powers they have. They could have offered the same arbitrary waiver that they finally did, on February 29, back in last December! Even now, urgently needed medical supplies are held up, waiting for FDA inspection/certification backlogs to clear: A news story: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fda-inspections-craziness-preventing-coronavirus-response https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/fda-inspections-c... Testimony from a Google employee & philanthropic investor: https://twitter.com/mekkaokereke/status/1241151194812186624 https://twitter.com/mekkaokereke/status/1241151194812186624 The FDA shouldn't get to tout themselves as doing a good thing with this "authorization" – when the risk of harm of such vitally-necessary new testing options is so small that a delay of days, much less months, is unwarranted. Let scientists, doctors, & patients experiment!

henrikschroder 7y ago

The invisible hand of the free market will get rid of snake-oil salesmen by... checks notes... magic!

calvinmorrison 7y ago
Yawn
roenxi 7y ago
The free market absolutely has the capability to control for snake-oil salesman; that is why there is a large and profitable business in reviewing items. In America the CDC was distributing snake oil in this crisis, their test kits didn't work. As the death toll rises that is going to enter free-marketing lore as a classic example of government regulation contributing to a crisis. There should have been 10 free market solutions and a CDC endorsement for the one they liked best. Depending on how this plays out we may well discover that lighter regulation would have saved literally millions of lives. Notice that as soon as a crisis hits and the government needs someone to figure out a solution their first and only tool is removing regulation. This is a powerful hint - that regulation is also retarding useful action in non-global-pandemic crisises.
- Retric 7y ago
  There is a giant market for fake mattress reviews and a tiny market for real ones. You see the same basic paradigm across a range of industries where reviewers make more money from advertising deals than their customers. That or just early access only being handed to people with positive relationships resulting in a lot of bias. Net result, consumer reports maintained a solid reputation over time and most independents end up selling out at some point. Well that and several billion dollar snake oil companies. PS: Fill in the blank: The water cooled ultra X get’s an extra 2 FPS ___ . (meh save yor money.) or (which is so amazing!)
  - roenxi 7y ago
    I do actually respect the point your making; normally I would just leave it alone. But were mattresses really the best example? I'm trying to figure out what it would take for me to feel I'd been cheated in a mattress purchase. What does a fake mattress look like?

mrfusion 7y ago

Hacker news is extremely pro FDA. I never understood why.

1996 7y ago
People fear that without some oversight, dangerous things would be sold Yet they go to the local restaurant who's preparing dishes with no special oversight ex ante, just good logic and the fear of being closed if there's an hygiene investigation ex post. For some reason, reviews can filter out bad restaurants but not drugs? Even if food can also kill? Evidence of the opposite, from darknet markets where people review drugs and sellers, is routinely ignored. But when the CDC delivers a non working test, people want more money for the CDC- so that next time, they don't deliver one non working test, but maybe 2 or 3 instead? My personal conclusion is that the "modern hacker" trust centralization and likes social control - whether it comes from government organizations, or private companies like google or facebook. Based on comments, working there would be a dream from most people here - and not just for the money. People seem to find some kind of prestige in that, for... reasons? There's a generational disconnect I think. I stopped trying to understand. When I see a movement pushing away Eric Raymond and Richard Stallman, I think it's time to stop associating with this movement, let these people make their own mistakes and hopefully learn from their failures.
- Tomte 7y ago
  People have a choice in which restaurants they patronize. They do not have a choice in which medical devices their ER doctor uses.
  - gojomo 7y ago
    Their doctor has a choice - or should, & could with fewer barriers to competition, especially barriers against things which work just fine throughout the world.
- omginternets 7y ago
  >Yet they go to the local restaurant who's preparing dishes with no special oversight ex ante, just good logic and the fear of being closed if there's an hygiene investigation ex post. Yes, because there are health and safety regulations in place!