5 ms·

I think it will turn that wearing masks has a much bigger effect than anticipated. (I suppose that's a form of social distancing.)

knocte 7y ago
Agree with this. I live in Hong Kong and there was no forced lockdown here either because 95% of the people wear them voluntarily.
- joemi 7y ago
  It almost certainly has more to do with your society's overall approach to sickness than it does with just masks specifically. Here in NYC, loads of sick people have no qualms with squeezing in between two people on the subway, coughing into the same hand they're about to use to turn a doorknob with, and so on. Wearing masks might help a tiny bit against inconsiderate people like that, but not a lot. I'm sure such inconsiderate people exist in Hong Kong too, but I'd be willing to bet that there are fewer, and that wearing masks is an indicator that more people are actually considerate about their sicknesses in HK than in the US.
klipt 7y ago
Imagine if the whole pandemic could have been prevented if we just manufactured masks at a higher rate and everyone wore them. Now even hospitals are running out.
- deelowe 7y ago
  I cannot for the life of me understand why we aren't turning every available textile mill into mask manufacturers right now. It should be trivial to do and clothes aren't a critical item. I'm sure most countries have planned something like this as it's a common need during major wars. We're basically saying that since it's not 100% effective, so it's not worth it. Meanwhile, neither is social distancing, but that's super dooper important.
  - greedo 7y ago
    Most of the textile industry has moved to Asia in the last 30 years.
    - eldavido 7y ago
      This is such an important point and so widely misunderstood. I feel like most Americans, when talking about the loss of US manufacturing, think of Ohio, Indiana, and other "rust belt" states, when the reality is, a huge amount of textile production centering on the east coast, from furniture manufacturing in North Carolina, to paper mills and cotton processing down to Atlanta, is gone. My working theory is that it's because those places are national election battleground states. Just kind of shocking when you realize there are 30-40K coal miners in the entire US, not even a Google worth of people, let alone a midsize city, and this small group is deciding our elections? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Stat...
      - baybal2 7y ago
        > My working theory is that it's because those places are national election battleground states. Just kind of shocking when you realize there are 30-40K coal miners in the entire US, not even a Google worth of people, let alone a midsize city, and this small group is deciding our elections? Unfortunately, you just discovered the unjust math of "popular" elections. This is the reason for a paradox why people like TD have such success winning elections in countries with plurality voting. Small, but extremely zealous coherent voting blocks consistently outmatch, a wide, but piecemeal support across many diverse groups.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        The states are important because they're swing states, and coal is important only because of what it represents about identity and messaging. A lot of the rust belt was blue when Democrats focused their messaging heavily on workers protections. People in the rust belt only have a few strong political priorities: 1. Their communities have watched their quality of living decline gradually over 40+ years now as industry and manufacturing in the US have become less competitive. They want jobs in their community, specifically ones they envision their community as capable of doing. Many of them take advantage of government benefits, and whether or not they are personally able to work or have a job, they know their community was better off when they had jobs. 2. Their population skews older and has more traditional ideas about social issues, but the rust belt is not the bible belt. Church attendance across the rust belt is very average compared to other states. Most aren't looking to push their beliefs on anyone else, but they don't see progressive social policies as something they personally want or need. 3. After long periods of decline, they don't trust promises. Many of them have grown poorer after every national election in their lifetime, as they've watched the rest of the country become more prosperous. For those growing up, success is measured by whether or not you 'made it out'. When someone promises them prosperity, they learned it's not for them, it's for everyone else. 4. While they don't trust politicians, they also don't trust businesses. They've had a front row seat view of what it means for businesses to chew people up and spit them out. They were heavily pro-union.... when they or their parents had jobs. Now many are questioning themselves, did unions help us or cause our jobs to disappear? These people aren't policy experts or economists. They're working-class people with working-class educations and working-class expectations for themselves. Whether or not Democratic platform policies would actually help them, the rest of the image of the Democratic platform rubs them the wrong way so much that it doesn't matter. Many of them voted blue for years, only to now feel like the party has passed them by and now only cares about the social and economic needs of people living on the coasts.
- BoiledCabbage 7y ago
  And the surgical masks are so fucking cheap to. The amount of money this country will lose because we failed to up mask production when we say this coming a million miles away.
- QuesnayJr 7y ago
  There really was a planning failure by somebody here. We had lots of warning this was coming.
_red 7y ago
WHO: * wearing mask does nothing and... * workers desperately need mask this is the problem when you lie to your audience to achieve some end. Your message not only gets disregarded but you don't actually achieve what you were trying to achieve with your lie in the first place. We are all lucky to have Tedros as our one-world doctor.
- owenmarshall 7y ago
  Those two things can both be true in a way: if an untrained person uses masks in non-high risk situations they may gain no significant benefit and even cause more harm by causing supply pressure.
  - corpMaverick 7y ago
    I don´t disagree. But one face mask has a mayor benefit on a doctor or nurse and minimal effect on a regular person. But millions of masks on millions of people may have a major effect in the pandemic.
- joemi 7y ago
  It's not a lie. Those two statements are taken wildly out of context. Wearing a mask while walking down the street does effectively nothing for you. But if your job is to be surrounded by infected for the whole day, a mask helps your chances of avoiding getting sick, since you're in close contact all day long. I'm not really sure why people don't understand this.
- nicoburns 7y ago
  I think the masks make the most difference when the sick people wear them, which is probably happening in Japan I guess.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Masks on sick people probably have the most impact when sick people wear them before they realize they're sick.

knocte 7y ago

Agree with this. I live in Hong Kong and there was no forced lockdown here either because 95% of the people wear them voluntarily.

joemi 7y ago
It almost certainly has more to do with your society's overall approach to sickness than it does with just masks specifically. Here in NYC, loads of sick people have no qualms with squeezing in between two people on the subway, coughing into the same hand they're about to use to turn a doorknob with, and so on. Wearing masks might help a tiny bit against inconsiderate people like that, but not a lot. I'm sure such inconsiderate people exist in Hong Kong too, but I'd be willing to bet that there are fewer, and that wearing masks is an indicator that more people are actually considerate about their sicknesses in HK than in the US.

klipt 7y ago

Imagine if the whole pandemic could have been prevented if we just manufactured masks at a higher rate and everyone wore them. Now even hospitals are running out.

deelowe 7y ago
I cannot for the life of me understand why we aren't turning every available textile mill into mask manufacturers right now. It should be trivial to do and clothes aren't a critical item. I'm sure most countries have planned something like this as it's a common need during major wars. We're basically saying that since it's not 100% effective, so it's not worth it. Meanwhile, neither is social distancing, but that's super dooper important.
- greedo 7y ago
  Most of the textile industry has moved to Asia in the last 30 years.
  - eldavido 7y ago
    This is such an important point and so widely misunderstood. I feel like most Americans, when talking about the loss of US manufacturing, think of Ohio, Indiana, and other "rust belt" states, when the reality is, a huge amount of textile production centering on the east coast, from furniture manufacturing in North Carolina, to paper mills and cotton processing down to Atlanta, is gone. My working theory is that it's because those places are national election battleground states. Just kind of shocking when you realize there are 30-40K coal miners in the entire US, not even a Google worth of people, let alone a midsize city, and this small group is deciding our elections? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining_in_the_United_Stat...
    - baybal2 7y ago
      > My working theory is that it's because those places are national election battleground states. Just kind of shocking when you realize there are 30-40K coal miners in the entire US, not even a Google worth of people, let alone a midsize city, and this small group is deciding our elections? Unfortunately, you just discovered the unjust math of "popular" elections. This is the reason for a paradox why people like TD have such success winning elections in countries with plurality voting. Small, but extremely zealous coherent voting blocks consistently outmatch, a wide, but piecemeal support across many diverse groups.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      The states are important because they're swing states, and coal is important only because of what it represents about identity and messaging. A lot of the rust belt was blue when Democrats focused their messaging heavily on workers protections. People in the rust belt only have a few strong political priorities: 1. Their communities have watched their quality of living decline gradually over 40+ years now as industry and manufacturing in the US have become less competitive. They want jobs in their community, specifically ones they envision their community as capable of doing. Many of them take advantage of government benefits, and whether or not they are personally able to work or have a job, they know their community was better off when they had jobs. 2. Their population skews older and has more traditional ideas about social issues, but the rust belt is not the bible belt. Church attendance across the rust belt is very average compared to other states. Most aren't looking to push their beliefs on anyone else, but they don't see progressive social policies as something they personally want or need. 3. After long periods of decline, they don't trust promises. Many of them have grown poorer after every national election in their lifetime, as they've watched the rest of the country become more prosperous. For those growing up, success is measured by whether or not you 'made it out'. When someone promises them prosperity, they learned it's not for them, it's for everyone else. 4. While they don't trust politicians, they also don't trust businesses. They've had a front row seat view of what it means for businesses to chew people up and spit them out. They were heavily pro-union.... when they or their parents had jobs. Now many are questioning themselves, did unions help us or cause our jobs to disappear? These people aren't policy experts or economists. They're working-class people with working-class educations and working-class expectations for themselves. Whether or not Democratic platform policies would actually help them, the rest of the image of the Democratic platform rubs them the wrong way so much that it doesn't matter. Many of them voted blue for years, only to now feel like the party has passed them by and now only cares about the social and economic needs of people living on the coasts.
BoiledCabbage 7y ago
And the surgical masks are so fucking cheap to. The amount of money this country will lose because we failed to up mask production when we say this coming a million miles away.
QuesnayJr 7y ago
There really was a planning failure by somebody here. We had lots of warning this was coming.

_red 7y ago

WHO: * wearing mask does nothing and... * workers desperately need mask this is the problem when you lie to your audience to achieve some end. Your message not only gets disregarded but you don't actually achieve what you were trying to achieve with your lie in the first place. We are all lucky to have Tedros as our one-world doctor.

owenmarshall 7y ago
Those two things can both be true in a way: if an untrained person uses masks in non-high risk situations they may gain no significant benefit and even cause more harm by causing supply pressure.
- corpMaverick 7y ago
  I don´t disagree. But one face mask has a mayor benefit on a doctor or nurse and minimal effect on a regular person. But millions of masks on millions of people may have a major effect in the pandemic.
joemi 7y ago
It's not a lie. Those two statements are taken wildly out of context. Wearing a mask while walking down the street does effectively nothing for you. But if your job is to be surrounded by infected for the whole day, a mask helps your chances of avoiding getting sick, since you're in close contact all day long. I'm not really sure why people don't understand this.
nicoburns 7y ago
I think the masks make the most difference when the sick people wear them, which is probably happening in Japan I guess.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Masks on sick people probably have the most impact when sick people wear them before they realize they're sick.