4 ms·

My toaster is so simple I could probably fix it with a soldering iron and parts I found in the dumpster. What's your point?

wilg 7y ago
People do not (and should not) have an expectation of executing arbitrary code on all devices they own.
- nixpulvis 7y ago
  I absolutely have an expectation of being able to run arbitrary code on my devices! This is what a general purpose computer is. If not, how should developers (and hackers) work on stuff then? How should the curious budding programmer get inspired to create? Moreover, how should the motivated user fix a problem they found that the developers didn't consider? Are they beholden to the powers that be? Should they be? General purpose computers sparked a revolution of ideas, products, and productivity; now you'd take that away from us! Why?!
  - wilg 7y ago
    Making devices that are not general purpose computers does not take away general purpose computers.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
      When people start marketing iPads as replacements for notebook PCs, some users are expecting it to be able to do what they could do on their Mac OS or Linux machines.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        So whose fault is that - the users or Apple?
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        Clearly Apple's for trying to sell us on this new vision for computing, which is just plain worse. Sorry.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So people who are suppose to be good with computers aren’t intelligent enough to know how the iOS platform - that’s been out for 13 years - works?
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        You're losing me in this line of reasoning... I know quite well how iOS works. The issue is, to make good software, you need users. If everyone is using iOS, there's no $/time/energy left for the others. To make progress with technology we can't be held hostage by our platforms, as Apple would have things. This is about having both the developers and the users put on the same playing field, and moving forward. Not backwards, like we've been going for years now. Sure there's been some steps in good directions, but ask yourself honestly if technology is truly working for you? Or are you working for technology?
        scarface74 7y ago
        If “everyone” is using iOS - which empirically not true and never will be at the prices Apple charges - have you ever thought that their priorities may be different than yours? Have you ever thought that iOS users not having to deal with the cruft of modern computing operating systems and the insecurities is progress for them? I only hear geeks complaining about the “walled garden”. Most people want something that just works.
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        Right, and last I checked my step dad has just as much trouble with his iPad as with with late Windows computer. He doesn't do a lot with computers. And I'd fathom a guess, it's not just nerds complaining... just look at the music industry, or the news paywalls, but I digress. Everyone's got an opinion, and they all stink, you know. At least with the general approach, you can swap out opinions at will. </rant>
- polotics 7y ago
  Seriously? Why? Do you have any reason justifying this statement?
  - drivingmenuts 7y ago
    It would be more accurate to say that the desired customer for these devices has no expectation of running arbitrary code on these devices. Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad, but they’re not going to deviate from their plans to accommodate you, either.
    - nixpulvis 7y ago
      > Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad Um... Apple makes the iPad, I'd sure hope they aren't trying to stop me from buying it. You could leave this whole sentence off. So you're just saying that it's about accommodation, which I think it where the argument lies. Who's to say what's accommodating the users better? Apple? The market? Since we drive the market, I think hearing the opinions of developers, hackers (any kind), and common users is all valuable. A balance must be struck, and I'd say that the current version of iOS does not strike this balance as a replacement for a traditional computer, making Apple's claim false.
      - drivingmenuts 7y ago
        I’m saying you’re not the user the devices are targeted toward. There are far more people who want to do things that don’t have a need to run arbitrary code than there are people who do. You seem to be assuming that everyone wants to be like you and tinker with things, but I assume exactly the opposite. These are devices for service consumption, not for service development, or really, any other kind of development, beyond the superficial.
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        That's fine. That's the whole point of the word "general" in general purpose computer. It's good for me, it's good for you, it's good for us all! Rejoice, at the wisdom of our forefathers.
- threatofrain 7y ago
  It's not people executing arbitrary code vs. them not getting access to apps outside the ecosystem, or that some apps are really privileged over others, making it a very unfair competition. Similarly, most people aren't going to be reading the documented output that comes from various gov't institutions, but they're not missing the impact of individual documents as opposed to the aggregate products that emerge from such information.

wilg 7y ago

People do not (and should not) have an expectation of executing arbitrary code on all devices they own.

nixpulvis 7y ago
I absolutely have an expectation of being able to run arbitrary code on my devices! This is what a general purpose computer is. If not, how should developers (and hackers) work on stuff then? How should the curious budding programmer get inspired to create? Moreover, how should the motivated user fix a problem they found that the developers didn't consider? Are they beholden to the powers that be? Should they be? General purpose computers sparked a revolution of ideas, products, and productivity; now you'd take that away from us! Why?!
- wilg 7y ago
  Making devices that are not general purpose computers does not take away general purpose computers.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 7y ago
    When people start marketing iPads as replacements for notebook PCs, some users are expecting it to be able to do what they could do on their Mac OS or Linux machines.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      So whose fault is that - the users or Apple?
      - nixpulvis 7y ago
        Clearly Apple's for trying to sell us on this new vision for computing, which is just plain worse. Sorry.
        scarface74 7y ago
        So people who are suppose to be good with computers aren’t intelligent enough to know how the iOS platform - that’s been out for 13 years - works?
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        You're losing me in this line of reasoning... I know quite well how iOS works. The issue is, to make good software, you need users. If everyone is using iOS, there's no $/time/energy left for the others. To make progress with technology we can't be held hostage by our platforms, as Apple would have things. This is about having both the developers and the users put on the same playing field, and moving forward. Not backwards, like we've been going for years now. Sure there's been some steps in good directions, but ask yourself honestly if technology is truly working for you? Or are you working for technology?
        scarface74 7y ago
        If “everyone” is using iOS - which empirically not true and never will be at the prices Apple charges - have you ever thought that their priorities may be different than yours? Have you ever thought that iOS users not having to deal with the cruft of modern computing operating systems and the insecurities is progress for them? I only hear geeks complaining about the “walled garden”. Most people want something that just works.
        nixpulvis 7y ago
        Right, and last I checked my step dad has just as much trouble with his iPad as with with late Windows computer. He doesn't do a lot with computers. And I'd fathom a guess, it's not just nerds complaining... just look at the music industry, or the news paywalls, but I digress. Everyone's got an opinion, and they all stink, you know. At least with the general approach, you can swap out opinions at will. </rant>
polotics 7y ago
Seriously? Why? Do you have any reason justifying this statement?
- drivingmenuts 7y ago
  It would be more accurate to say that the desired customer for these devices has no expectation of running arbitrary code on these devices. Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad, but they’re not going to deviate from their plans to accommodate you, either.
  - nixpulvis 7y ago
    > Apple is not going to stop you from purchasing the iPad Um... Apple makes the iPad, I'd sure hope they aren't trying to stop me from buying it. You could leave this whole sentence off. So you're just saying that it's about accommodation, which I think it where the argument lies. Who's to say what's accommodating the users better? Apple? The market? Since we drive the market, I think hearing the opinions of developers, hackers (any kind), and common users is all valuable. A balance must be struck, and I'd say that the current version of iOS does not strike this balance as a replacement for a traditional computer, making Apple's claim false.
    - drivingmenuts 7y ago
      I’m saying you’re not the user the devices are targeted toward. There are far more people who want to do things that don’t have a need to run arbitrary code than there are people who do. You seem to be assuming that everyone wants to be like you and tinker with things, but I assume exactly the opposite. These are devices for service consumption, not for service development, or really, any other kind of development, beyond the superficial.
      - nixpulvis 7y ago
        That's fine. That's the whole point of the word "general" in general purpose computer. It's good for me, it's good for you, it's good for us all! Rejoice, at the wisdom of our forefathers.
threatofrain 7y ago
It's not people executing arbitrary code vs. them not getting access to apps outside the ecosystem, or that some apps are really privileged over others, making it a very unfair competition. Similarly, most people aren't going to be reading the documented output that comes from various gov't institutions, but they're not missing the impact of individual documents as opposed to the aggregate products that emerge from such information.