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Considering that the EU doesn't even have freedom of speech, calling that the free world is quite the stretch.

by jsjddbbwj 7y ago

krapp 7y ago
Neither does the US.
- jsjddbbwj 7y ago
  Definitely, I didn't mention the US at all, but at least the US doesn't have blasphemy laws, for example.
  - krapp 7y ago
    > at least the US doesn't have blasphemy laws, for example True. And yet despite that, Christianity seems to be a litmus test for being President in the US.
    - bssatTea567 7y ago
      It's a 70% christian country. Do you have a problem with that?
      - krapp 7y ago
        Yes, I do. The US is not a theocracy, it's a secular republic. A person's religion should no more qualify them for office than their race or gender.
        Fjolsvith 7y ago
        It didn't surprise me when the Democrat party eliminated everyone except white men in their primary race this year.
      - cmurf 7y ago
        See the letters between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists. Who were the Danbury Baptists worried about? Muslims? Jews? Atheists? The local Congregationalist Christians.
justanotherc 7y ago
But they don't have civil forfeiture, they have a less tyrannical justice system, they have fewer incarcerated people per capita, so there's that. Americans claim they are free, but only if they contort the definition. There's more to freedom than guns and free speech.
- jsjddbbwj 7y ago
  A more tyrannical justice system and more incarcerated people are not necessarily bad per se. Remember that the US is vastly more heterogeneous which translates into more crime. Keeping criminals in prison is freedom--freedom to own a store and not being robbed, for instance. Not sure how common civil forfeiture is, I'm not American, but it sounds quite fishy indeed. As I said below, I didn't mention the US at all...
  - justanotherc 7y ago
    Its a fair point, I'm just pointing out the fact that freedom is in the eye of the collective beholder.
  - woah 7y ago
    You really think that the freedom to organize a neonazi cell is more important than the freedom not to be robbed at gun point by the police?
  - Cpoll 7y ago
    > Keeping criminals in prison is freedom--freedom to own a store and not being robbed, for instance. I think when people mention the high incarceration rate in the U.S., they're usually bemoaning not the armed robbers, but those that are incarcerated for three-strikes laws, recreational drug use, non-violent recidivism, and those unconvicted but unable to afford bail.
  - weare138 7y ago
    > Remember that the US is vastly more heterogeneous which translates into more crime Care to substantiate that claim?

Considering that the EU doesn't even have freedom of speech, calling that the free world is quite the stretch.

krapp 7y ago

Neither does the US.

jsjddbbwj 7y ago
Definitely, I didn't mention the US at all, but at least the US doesn't have blasphemy laws, for example.
- krapp 7y ago
  > at least the US doesn't have blasphemy laws, for example True. And yet despite that, Christianity seems to be a litmus test for being President in the US.
  - bssatTea567 7y ago
    It's a 70% christian country. Do you have a problem with that?
    - krapp 7y ago
      Yes, I do. The US is not a theocracy, it's a secular republic. A person's religion should no more qualify them for office than their race or gender.
      - Fjolsvith 7y ago
        It didn't surprise me when the Democrat party eliminated everyone except white men in their primary race this year.
    - cmurf 7y ago
      See the letters between Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists. Who were the Danbury Baptists worried about? Muslims? Jews? Atheists? The local Congregationalist Christians.

justanotherc 7y ago

But they don't have civil forfeiture, they have a less tyrannical justice system, they have fewer incarcerated people per capita, so there's that. Americans claim they are free, but only if they contort the definition. There's more to freedom than guns and free speech.

jsjddbbwj 7y ago
A more tyrannical justice system and more incarcerated people are not necessarily bad per se. Remember that the US is vastly more heterogeneous which translates into more crime. Keeping criminals in prison is freedom--freedom to own a store and not being robbed, for instance. Not sure how common civil forfeiture is, I'm not American, but it sounds quite fishy indeed. As I said below, I didn't mention the US at all...
- justanotherc 7y ago
  Its a fair point, I'm just pointing out the fact that freedom is in the eye of the collective beholder.
- woah 7y ago
  You really think that the freedom to organize a neonazi cell is more important than the freedom not to be robbed at gun point by the police?
- Cpoll 7y ago
  > Keeping criminals in prison is freedom--freedom to own a store and not being robbed, for instance. I think when people mention the high incarceration rate in the U.S., they're usually bemoaning not the armed robbers, but those that are incarcerated for three-strikes laws, recreational drug use, non-violent recidivism, and those unconvicted but unable to afford bail.
- weare138 7y ago
  > Remember that the US is vastly more heterogeneous which translates into more crime Care to substantiate that claim?