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> You know that, for data on big corporation's servers, the NSA already gets a copy of everything This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the S

by lima 7y ago

> You know that, for data on big corporation's servers, the NSA already gets a copy of everything This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the Snowden documents or other leaks hinted at this (except for the NSA snooping on unencrypted internal links, which is useless now that everyone encrypts everything). > Why would this be so different for voluntary self-espionage devices (Alex, Dot etc.)? Why would a big tech company willfully infringe on their customer's privacy? How would they even do it? They have every reason to prevent it.

wolco 7y ago
The Snowden documents are old now while this has become the hottest gift. "Why would a big tech company willfully infringe on their customer's privacy?" to comply with a national security order. These companies are not lawless entities fighting for good.
- lima 7y ago
  I don't think NSL can even be used request the actual content of the recordings (vs. "just" the metadata) - a judge would have to sign off on that. Now, clearly there's a lot of questionable practices like secret courts, gag orders and ineffective oversight in general, but this is still far from "for data on big corporation's servers, the NSA already gets a copy of everything", and very far from "being forced to deploy a firmware update that turns a smart home devices into a bug". Companies act exclusively in their own interests, which I would hope includes to not engage in covert surveillance of their own customers. This will only stay this way if we keep demanding and expecting privacy, and push for stronger oversight. But defeatist claims like "the NSA gets all data anyway" are not useful.
  - einpoklum 7y ago
    Stop gaslighting for the US government. You're ignoring publicly available information, universally recognized as factual.
rapind 7y ago
"Why would a big tech company willfully infringe on their customer's privacy? How would they even do it? They have every reason to prevent it." To sell advertising and recommend products?
eeZah7Ux 7y ago
> This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the Snowden documents or other leaks hinted at this (except for the NSA snooping on unencrypted internal links, which is useless now that everyone encrypts everything). This is absurd. Plenty of leaks clearly indicated that they succeded at breaking different types of SSL.
- lima 7y ago
  The working theory is that they had a practical attack on RC4, which made up a significant percentage of SSL traffic back then.
einpoklum 7y ago
> This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the Snowden documents or other leaks hinted at this On the contrary. The leaks say this, specifically. You should read up on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore To quote Snowden personally (on XKeyscore): > You could read anyone's email in the world, anybody > you've got an email address for. Any website: You can > watch traffic to and from it. Any computer that an > individual sits at: You can watch it. Any laptop that > you're tracking: you can follow it as it moves from > place to place throughout the world. It's a one-stop- > shop for access to the NSA's information. ... You can > tag individuals ... Let's say you work at a major > German corporation and I want access to that network, > I can track your username on a website on a forum > somewhere, I can track your real name, I can track > associations with your friends and I can build what's > called a fingerprint, which is network activity unique > to you, which means anywhere you go in the world, > anywhere you try to sort of hide your online presence, > your identity.

by lima 7y ago

wolco 7y ago

The Snowden documents are old now while this has become the hottest gift. "Why would a big tech company willfully infringe on their customer's privacy?" to comply with a national security order. These companies are not lawless entities fighting for good.

lima 7y ago
I don't think NSL can even be used request the actual content of the recordings (vs. "just" the metadata) - a judge would have to sign off on that. Now, clearly there's a lot of questionable practices like secret courts, gag orders and ineffective oversight in general, but this is still far from "for data on big corporation's servers, the NSA already gets a copy of everything", and very far from "being forced to deploy a firmware update that turns a smart home devices into a bug". Companies act exclusively in their own interests, which I would hope includes to not engage in covert surveillance of their own customers. This will only stay this way if we keep demanding and expecting privacy, and push for stronger oversight. But defeatist claims like "the NSA gets all data anyway" are not useful.
- einpoklum 7y ago
  Stop gaslighting for the US government. You're ignoring publicly available information, universally recognized as factual.

rapind 7y ago

"Why would a big tech company willfully infringe on their customer's privacy? How would they even do it? They have every reason to prevent it." To sell advertising and recommend products?

eeZah7Ux 7y ago

> This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the Snowden documents or other leaks hinted at this (except for the NSA snooping on unencrypted internal links, which is useless now that everyone encrypts everything). This is absurd. Plenty of leaks clearly indicated that they succeded at breaking different types of SSL.

lima 7y ago
The working theory is that they had a practical attack on RC4, which made up a significant percentage of SSL traffic back then.

einpoklum 7y ago

> This is squarely in conspiracy theory realm. Nothing in the Snowden documents or other leaks hinted at this On the contrary. The leaks say this, specifically. You should read up on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore To quote Snowden personally (on XKeyscore): > You could read anyone's email in the world, anybody > you've got an email address for. Any website: You can > watch traffic to and from it. Any computer that an > individual sits at: You can watch it. Any laptop that > you're tracking: you can follow it as it moves from > place to place throughout the world. It's a one-stop- > shop for access to the NSA's information. ... You can > tag individuals ... Let's say you work at a major > German corporation and I want access to that network, > I can track your username on a website on a forum > somewhere, I can track your real name, I can track > associations with your friends and I can build what's > called a fingerprint, which is network activity unique > to you, which means anywhere you go in the world, > anywhere you try to sort of hide your online presence, > your identity.