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I own just about one of every single Apple products, I'm completely invested in the ecosystem. Except for one thing, the iPad. I've never once had the need for

I own just about one of every single Apple products, I'm completely invested in the ecosystem. Except for one thing, the iPad. I've never once had the need for one or even the want for one. I use my MacBook Pro or my iPhone, not sure why I need a bigger iPhone, so to speak. But this... this might convince me to actually get my first iPad.

izacus 7y ago
> But this... this might convince me to actually get my first iPad. Any you'll get a MacBook Air where you're not allowed to run a significant part of productivity/development software and absolutely nothing that wasn't approved by some californian.
- IAmEveryone 7y ago
  This would be funny and fresh contrarianism if you didn’t miss that they already “own every Apple device there is”.
  - izacus 7y ago
    Does that magically allow you to deploy software to your iPad without asking Apple for their permission? Losing your ability to ever build a product that might compete with your hardware manufacturer is a massive loss of freedom no matter how much you're trying to call me a "contrarian". Remember, in Apple's world, software like Firefox which fights for privacy against corporations is not allowed to exist. That's the major difference between the iPad world and macOS world.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Well seeing that in every category that Apple sells something or installs a default app, there is a third party app that competes with it, your statement is probably false.
pram 7y ago
I'm pretty much the same, and it's not worth it. UNLESS you're planning on drawing, then the 12.9 is one of the best tablets you can get.
kranner 7y ago
The iPad and iPad Mini are the best ebook readers for most users. Fantastic screens, massive storage, speedy CPUs and unlike Kindles, a touchscreen that works perfectly on every touch and swipe.
- gman83 7y ago
  I can literally store thousands of books on my Kindle so storage is fine. The battery lasts weeks without recharging. E ink screen is just way better for reading books. Who cares about swiping I just want to turn the page.
  - kranner 7y ago
    The touchscreen matters when you want to type in notes. The Kindle makes it difficult with missed/adjacent letters and no or useless autocorrect. Also the Kindle is not usable with PDF files. But the e-ink screen and battery time are definitely better on Kindle.
  - SanchoPanda 7y ago
    For those who need PDF support, Kindle life is tough.
    - intopieces 7y ago
      It's a shame, too, because the 2009 Kindle DX is perfect for PDFs, but isn't supported anymore.
simonh 7y ago
I think the iPad is the single most polarising product in the Apple ecosystem. I think the 'not a computer' marketing is pretty well judged. For many people it really can't replace a laptop, but for others like me it's so much better than a laptop could ever be due to the form factor and the situations I can use it in. When writing this I wrote some phrases like "It's just not good at many of the tasks people use laptops for", then had to try and rewrite that a few times. The thing is there are a whole slew of tasks that sound like they are the same, but how and where you do them makes a huge difference. How you do them on an iPad is completely different to how you do them on a laptop, and that breaks some people's work flow or simplifies and streamlines otherwise very painful work flows for others. I use my iPad heavily for writing and scripting, but I do a lot of that on the train or in all sorts of ad-hoc situations where a laptop would be a real nuisance. Hence I don't use a keyboard case either. It works for me but absolutely would not work for a lot of others.
lonelappde 7y ago
> not sure why I need a bigger iPhone Obviously it's for people who want a bigger screen.
pritovido 7y ago
I used to agree with that sentiment. Then one day I saw a stock clearance offer and bought an Ipad because the price was so good it was a steal. Then another day I added three pdf books to ibooks so I could read it on vacations, then three more, then ten, then twenty. I also use it for note taking and sketches. The pencil and the ipad is an old model now but I love it. Then I stated using it for programming with my own side loaded apps that connect with a big computer. Then for minor things like controlling my 3D printers, for showing something to someone(work colleagues) you can do it while walking which is very useful. So the thing only does three things for me, but in those things the thing is essential.
- swiley 7y ago
  >side loaded apps The reason I (and probably others) tend to use community maintained software is because I absolutely hate fighting with my computer over something I shouldn’t have to (like wanting to install a compiler.) This is what people mean when they say the iPad is a big iPhone; you have to fight it to make it do anything just like on the iPhone.
  - Grustaf 7y ago
    It’s the other way around isn’t it? Iphones and ipads cracked the mobile application problem by making it effortless to install apps.
    - swiley 7y ago
      I’m so glad installing ocaml and irssi on my phone is much more effortless than my laptop. Apple did a fantastic job there. Try reading the comment.
      - Grustaf 7y ago
        Sure, if you spend a minute thinking about who the ipad is made for. Console cowboys or normal people doing normal things like writing documents.
scarface74 7y ago
I’m also fully in on the Apple ecosystem - AirPods Pro, Watch, AppleTV, iPhone, and iPad. But I really don’t see the purpose of buying a Mac for personal use. I have a work provided laptop, I mostly do “consumption” at home besides the occasional resume update with Word and some personal spreadsheets. The iPad has better battery life than a laptop, instant on , built in cellular, it’s more consistently responsive and first and foremost, I can install any random crap trusting the sandbox and the permission system. But as far as a “bigger phone”, having a larger screen is a godsend not to mention working with multiple apps at once and pip video. I had the first gen iPad and it was just a bigger iPhone, the iPad has come a long way since then.
mrunkel 7y ago
The iPad isn't really for people who read hacker news. Except maybe on the toilet. :) But for my mother, who has never touched, nor wanted to touch a computer, it has opened whole new worlds for her. She now loves that iPad and uses it for email, facebook, web browsing etc. There are a whole lot more people out there like my mother than those who read hacker news. If you've never felt the need for an iPad, you probably don't need one.
- sjwright 7y ago
  I know many people for whom an iPad is the first and only computer they’ve ever owned. Most of them are in their 70s, or older. With a SIM card for internet connectivity, it’s hard to beat for keeping grandparents connected with their grandchildren with a steady stream of photos and the occasional video call.
  - mrunkel 7y ago
    I must not have been clear. I wasn't saying that the iPad can't be used by hacker news readers. I was saying that we're not the target audience. I have an iPad that I use a lot myself.
- look_lookatme 7y ago
  I wouldn't outright dismiss the iPad like this. I read more on the iPad than I do with physical books or my Kindle. In particular, pair it with an O'Reilly Learning account and it opens up a whole new pedagogic world I did not realize I was missing out on. It makes me wish Oyster was still around too.
  - mrunkel 7y ago
    I must not have been clear. I wasn't saying that the iPad can't be used by hacker news readers. I was saying that we're not the target audience. I have an iPad that I use a lot myself.
- jclardy 7y ago
  I’m on hacker news and replying to this on an iPad. My mac and windows desktop both have their place, but the iPad really does slot in as a “third” device between a full fledged desktop OS and my phone. I use it to take notes during meetings, to keep daily work logs, for replying to emails, checking up on slack, reading PDFs and ebooks, task management, web browsing and watching video as a third monitor to my two display desktop setup. Yes it is extremely limited in a lot of ways, but having an instant on device that is one tap and less than a MS away from all those tasks really does change the way you work. And being able to pick it up and walk around with it comfortably means you can do those tasks anywhere. And if you are like me and work remote from places like coffee shops - it basically takes up barely any more room in your laptop bag.
mythz 7y ago
For years my retired parents own a couple of laptops and an iMac in an office room which they used to use frequently when they wanted to access the internet, but now the iPad is their primary computing device at home which they use on the couch (or indoor/outdoor tables, never in office anymore) and their iPhone's when away from home. It's primarily a consumption device of which it's one of the most enjoyable to consume content in, so it's not going to be as appealing to creators, although it's starting to get used more with designers, writers and photographers. I'll see the occasional post of devs attempting an iPad workflow with SSH and vi/emacs/etc but I doubt I'll ever see it as a general purpose dev device, maybe Apple can extend Swift playground to be useful for some limited GUI Apps composed mostly by dragging UI Components, changing props & writing little event code snippets.
JohnBooty 7y ago
I still don't quite understand how folks could use one for most work, aside from using one as an SSH terminal or if you're an artist who can make use of the (excellent!) Pencil. I have a 38" monitor on my desk and literally everything I do absolutely screams for more real estate. The most I can have on screen at once, the less cognitive overhead. But, I really love our iPads for enjoyment purposes. Apple Arcade is a really nice gaming deal and you can pair Xbox/PS controllers. It's also obviously nicer than a phone for reading and watching things. It's nicer than a laptop for reading some things, thanks to the option to switch to a vertical orientation. The speakers on the iPad Pros are actually quite impressive as well. Not as good as the 2019 16" MBP (which are REALLY impressive) but they are very enjoyable for watching videos. iPads are also nice for kitchen use - watching videos or looking at recipes. No worries about things getting into the keyboard, like with a laptop. iPads are far from essential. I could easily live without one. But in our house they've finally carved out a very solid niche.
- jrockway 7y ago
  For work, I basically use a 30" monitor with a single terminal showing a tmux session, so an iPad is just a scaled down version of that. I use one as my "laptop" because it's lighter than laptops, the battery lasts longer, it doesn't have a billion configuration options that I need to manually keep in sync with my desktop (that's the big one for me), and it has a built-in 4G modem that only costs $20 a month to have unlimited data on. I think it's annoying that it has such a powerful CPU but the software won't let me run my usual development tools directly on the machine, and that Safari is missing features like allowing webpages to take advantage of the 120Hz display. It kind of reminds me of being a Sony user in the early 2000s... amazing hardware, absolutely crap software. Apple's software is not crap and is generally pretty okay, but it does feel a lot like that situation to me. If the iOS ecosystem were open-source, Intel-based laptops would be dead on the floor. But it's not, so you have to either suffer a hot underpowered laptop that runs good software, or a quick and light device that only runs dumbed-down versions of software. Even though the iPad has more raw CPU power. The big things I miss are mouse support (way better device than my fingers, for manipulating web pages designed with mice, anyway), the ability to talk to random USB dongles (I run into lots of things with UARTs that I want to talk to from my "laptop"), and the inability to run things like Fusion 360. (I'm willing to change CAD software if there is something that runs equally-well on iPads and Windows/Linux, though.) (I do think it's funny that to make money, all I need is a terminal connected to a Linux box and the Internet... but for hobbies and recreation, I need software that is written by thousands of developers all working on the same codebase.)
jedberg 7y ago
I'm in the same boat as you. Has multiple laptops and iPhones, never had an iPad. But my wife lives almost exclusively on her iPad and iPhone, almost never touches her (hand-me-down) laptop. Before we had kids, I would get her hand-me-down iPads. I tried integrating them into my workflow, going as far as leaving my laptop at home for a week long trip where I would be working remotely (we had a small bluetooth keyboard even). And I still couldn't find a good place for it in my workflow. When I need to type long things or write code, I prefer my laptop. When I need to do sysadmin work, I prefer my laptop. And for everything else, my iPhone is more than sufficient. At this point the kids have taken over the last two hand-me-downs, so there is none left for me to try again. Eventually my wife will get an upgrade to her iPad Pro, and then I'll perhaps have access to a decent iPad again. I'll try once again to add it into my workflow and see if there is a place for it, now that they've done a better job with synchronizing between Apple devices. I guess we'll see how it goes...
smnscu 7y ago
FWIW I'm in the same boat wrt the iPad, however I just bought a used iPad Air 1st gen for 139 GBP (came with a brand new case too) to use with my new treadmill. It's slow as molasses but works great for watching videos (and iFit), and it was so cheap.
wenc 7y ago
Just echoing what's been said here. The iPad is an iPhone with a bigger screen -- except that trivial physical difference results in use-cases that aren't so trivially different. Part of it has to do with frictionlessness. I don't own a personal laptop anymore. I use my iPad Air for video-editing, for Google Docs as well as for media consumption when I travel or when I'm at a coffee shop. It's so light that I can whip it out in 3 seconds, do stuff, and put it away. Because it's designed as a mobile device, battery usage is enhanced so I can use it all day without recharging -- else I can plug it into a small Anker battery pack. You can do that with an MBA too, but that's a more expensive device plus there's just a little more fuss. Power consumption is higher so you are always hunting for an outlet and there's the added weight of an AC adapter (none with the iPad) -- though I suppose these days you can charge MBA's with a larger battery pack. Caveat: programming doesn't work so well because the iPad (even with the keyboard/trackpad) has a "one-app at a time" interface, whereas with programming you need multiple windows open simultaneously. (iOS has a multi window interface but it isn't that great)
m0zg 7y ago
Let me un-convince you: that keyboard is $350. Disclosure: I do have an iPad Pro. I use it to watch netflix and read scientific papers (PDF). That's pretty much it.

izacus 7y ago

> But this... this might convince me to actually get my first iPad. Any you'll get a MacBook Air where you're not allowed to run a significant part of productivity/development software and absolutely nothing that wasn't approved by some californian.

IAmEveryone 7y ago
This would be funny and fresh contrarianism if you didn’t miss that they already “own every Apple device there is”.
- izacus 7y ago
  Does that magically allow you to deploy software to your iPad without asking Apple for their permission? Losing your ability to ever build a product that might compete with your hardware manufacturer is a massive loss of freedom no matter how much you're trying to call me a "contrarian". Remember, in Apple's world, software like Firefox which fights for privacy against corporations is not allowed to exist. That's the major difference between the iPad world and macOS world.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well seeing that in every category that Apple sells something or installs a default app, there is a third party app that competes with it, your statement is probably false.

pram 7y ago

I'm pretty much the same, and it's not worth it. UNLESS you're planning on drawing, then the 12.9 is one of the best tablets you can get.

kranner 7y ago

The iPad and iPad Mini are the best ebook readers for most users. Fantastic screens, massive storage, speedy CPUs and unlike Kindles, a touchscreen that works perfectly on every touch and swipe.

gman83 7y ago
I can literally store thousands of books on my Kindle so storage is fine. The battery lasts weeks without recharging. E ink screen is just way better for reading books. Who cares about swiping I just want to turn the page.
- kranner 7y ago
  The touchscreen matters when you want to type in notes. The Kindle makes it difficult with missed/adjacent letters and no or useless autocorrect. Also the Kindle is not usable with PDF files. But the e-ink screen and battery time are definitely better on Kindle.
- SanchoPanda 7y ago
  For those who need PDF support, Kindle life is tough.
  - intopieces 7y ago
    It's a shame, too, because the 2009 Kindle DX is perfect for PDFs, but isn't supported anymore.

simonh 7y ago

I think the iPad is the single most polarising product in the Apple ecosystem. I think the 'not a computer' marketing is pretty well judged. For many people it really can't replace a laptop, but for others like me it's so much better than a laptop could ever be due to the form factor and the situations I can use it in. When writing this I wrote some phrases like "It's just not good at many of the tasks people use laptops for", then had to try and rewrite that a few times. The thing is there are a whole slew of tasks that sound like they are the same, but how and where you do them makes a huge difference. How you do them on an iPad is completely different to how you do them on a laptop, and that breaks some people's work flow or simplifies and streamlines otherwise very painful work flows for others. I use my iPad heavily for writing and scripting, but I do a lot of that on the train or in all sorts of ad-hoc situations where a laptop would be a real nuisance. Hence I don't use a keyboard case either. It works for me but absolutely would not work for a lot of others.

lonelappde 7y ago

> not sure why I need a bigger iPhone Obviously it's for people who want a bigger screen.

pritovido 7y ago

I used to agree with that sentiment. Then one day I saw a stock clearance offer and bought an Ipad because the price was so good it was a steal. Then another day I added three pdf books to ibooks so I could read it on vacations, then three more, then ten, then twenty. I also use it for note taking and sketches. The pencil and the ipad is an old model now but I love it. Then I stated using it for programming with my own side loaded apps that connect with a big computer. Then for minor things like controlling my 3D printers, for showing something to someone(work colleagues) you can do it while walking which is very useful. So the thing only does three things for me, but in those things the thing is essential.

swiley 7y ago
>side loaded apps The reason I (and probably others) tend to use community maintained software is because I absolutely hate fighting with my computer over something I shouldn’t have to (like wanting to install a compiler.) This is what people mean when they say the iPad is a big iPhone; you have to fight it to make it do anything just like on the iPhone.
- Grustaf 7y ago
  It’s the other way around isn’t it? Iphones and ipads cracked the mobile application problem by making it effortless to install apps.
  - swiley 7y ago
    I’m so glad installing ocaml and irssi on my phone is much more effortless than my laptop. Apple did a fantastic job there. Try reading the comment.
    - Grustaf 7y ago
      Sure, if you spend a minute thinking about who the ipad is made for. Console cowboys or normal people doing normal things like writing documents.

scarface74 7y ago

I’m also fully in on the Apple ecosystem - AirPods Pro, Watch, AppleTV, iPhone, and iPad. But I really don’t see the purpose of buying a Mac for personal use. I have a work provided laptop, I mostly do “consumption” at home besides the occasional resume update with Word and some personal spreadsheets. The iPad has better battery life than a laptop, instant on , built in cellular, it’s more consistently responsive and first and foremost, I can install any random crap trusting the sandbox and the permission system. But as far as a “bigger phone”, having a larger screen is a godsend not to mention working with multiple apps at once and pip video. I had the first gen iPad and it was just a bigger iPhone, the iPad has come a long way since then.

mrunkel 7y ago

The iPad isn't really for people who read hacker news. Except maybe on the toilet. :) But for my mother, who has never touched, nor wanted to touch a computer, it has opened whole new worlds for her. She now loves that iPad and uses it for email, facebook, web browsing etc. There are a whole lot more people out there like my mother than those who read hacker news. If you've never felt the need for an iPad, you probably don't need one.

sjwright 7y ago
I know many people for whom an iPad is the first and only computer they’ve ever owned. Most of them are in their 70s, or older. With a SIM card for internet connectivity, it’s hard to beat for keeping grandparents connected with their grandchildren with a steady stream of photos and the occasional video call.
- mrunkel 7y ago
  I must not have been clear. I wasn't saying that the iPad can't be used by hacker news readers. I was saying that we're not the target audience. I have an iPad that I use a lot myself.
look_lookatme 7y ago
I wouldn't outright dismiss the iPad like this. I read more on the iPad than I do with physical books or my Kindle. In particular, pair it with an O'Reilly Learning account and it opens up a whole new pedagogic world I did not realize I was missing out on. It makes me wish Oyster was still around too.
- mrunkel 7y ago
  I must not have been clear. I wasn't saying that the iPad can't be used by hacker news readers. I was saying that we're not the target audience. I have an iPad that I use a lot myself.
jclardy 7y ago
I’m on hacker news and replying to this on an iPad. My mac and windows desktop both have their place, but the iPad really does slot in as a “third” device between a full fledged desktop OS and my phone. I use it to take notes during meetings, to keep daily work logs, for replying to emails, checking up on slack, reading PDFs and ebooks, task management, web browsing and watching video as a third monitor to my two display desktop setup. Yes it is extremely limited in a lot of ways, but having an instant on device that is one tap and less than a MS away from all those tasks really does change the way you work. And being able to pick it up and walk around with it comfortably means you can do those tasks anywhere. And if you are like me and work remote from places like coffee shops - it basically takes up barely any more room in your laptop bag.

mythz 7y ago

For years my retired parents own a couple of laptops and an iMac in an office room which they used to use frequently when they wanted to access the internet, but now the iPad is their primary computing device at home which they use on the couch (or indoor/outdoor tables, never in office anymore) and their iPhone's when away from home. It's primarily a consumption device of which it's one of the most enjoyable to consume content in, so it's not going to be as appealing to creators, although it's starting to get used more with designers, writers and photographers. I'll see the occasional post of devs attempting an iPad workflow with SSH and vi/emacs/etc but I doubt I'll ever see it as a general purpose dev device, maybe Apple can extend Swift playground to be useful for some limited GUI Apps composed mostly by dragging UI Components, changing props & writing little event code snippets.

JohnBooty 7y ago

I still don't quite understand how folks could use one for most work, aside from using one as an SSH terminal or if you're an artist who can make use of the (excellent!) Pencil. I have a 38" monitor on my desk and literally everything I do absolutely screams for more real estate. The most I can have on screen at once, the less cognitive overhead. But, I really love our iPads for enjoyment purposes. Apple Arcade is a really nice gaming deal and you can pair Xbox/PS controllers. It's also obviously nicer than a phone for reading and watching things. It's nicer than a laptop for reading some things, thanks to the option to switch to a vertical orientation. The speakers on the iPad Pros are actually quite impressive as well. Not as good as the 2019 16" MBP (which are REALLY impressive) but they are very enjoyable for watching videos. iPads are also nice for kitchen use - watching videos or looking at recipes. No worries about things getting into the keyboard, like with a laptop. iPads are far from essential. I could easily live without one. But in our house they've finally carved out a very solid niche.

jrockway 7y ago
For work, I basically use a 30" monitor with a single terminal showing a tmux session, so an iPad is just a scaled down version of that. I use one as my "laptop" because it's lighter than laptops, the battery lasts longer, it doesn't have a billion configuration options that I need to manually keep in sync with my desktop (that's the big one for me), and it has a built-in 4G modem that only costs $20 a month to have unlimited data on. I think it's annoying that it has such a powerful CPU but the software won't let me run my usual development tools directly on the machine, and that Safari is missing features like allowing webpages to take advantage of the 120Hz display. It kind of reminds me of being a Sony user in the early 2000s... amazing hardware, absolutely crap software. Apple's software is not crap and is generally pretty okay, but it does feel a lot like that situation to me. If the iOS ecosystem were open-source, Intel-based laptops would be dead on the floor. But it's not, so you have to either suffer a hot underpowered laptop that runs good software, or a quick and light device that only runs dumbed-down versions of software. Even though the iPad has more raw CPU power. The big things I miss are mouse support (way better device than my fingers, for manipulating web pages designed with mice, anyway), the ability to talk to random USB dongles (I run into lots of things with UARTs that I want to talk to from my "laptop"), and the inability to run things like Fusion 360. (I'm willing to change CAD software if there is something that runs equally-well on iPads and Windows/Linux, though.) (I do think it's funny that to make money, all I need is a terminal connected to a Linux box and the Internet... but for hobbies and recreation, I need software that is written by thousands of developers all working on the same codebase.)

jedberg 7y ago

I'm in the same boat as you. Has multiple laptops and iPhones, never had an iPad. But my wife lives almost exclusively on her iPad and iPhone, almost never touches her (hand-me-down) laptop. Before we had kids, I would get her hand-me-down iPads. I tried integrating them into my workflow, going as far as leaving my laptop at home for a week long trip where I would be working remotely (we had a small bluetooth keyboard even). And I still couldn't find a good place for it in my workflow. When I need to type long things or write code, I prefer my laptop. When I need to do sysadmin work, I prefer my laptop. And for everything else, my iPhone is more than sufficient. At this point the kids have taken over the last two hand-me-downs, so there is none left for me to try again. Eventually my wife will get an upgrade to her iPad Pro, and then I'll perhaps have access to a decent iPad again. I'll try once again to add it into my workflow and see if there is a place for it, now that they've done a better job with synchronizing between Apple devices. I guess we'll see how it goes...

smnscu 7y ago

FWIW I'm in the same boat wrt the iPad, however I just bought a used iPad Air 1st gen for 139 GBP (came with a brand new case too) to use with my new treadmill. It's slow as molasses but works great for watching videos (and iFit), and it was so cheap.

wenc 7y ago

Just echoing what's been said here. The iPad is an iPhone with a bigger screen -- except that trivial physical difference results in use-cases that aren't so trivially different. Part of it has to do with frictionlessness. I don't own a personal laptop anymore. I use my iPad Air for video-editing, for Google Docs as well as for media consumption when I travel or when I'm at a coffee shop. It's so light that I can whip it out in 3 seconds, do stuff, and put it away. Because it's designed as a mobile device, battery usage is enhanced so I can use it all day without recharging -- else I can plug it into a small Anker battery pack. You can do that with an MBA too, but that's a more expensive device plus there's just a little more fuss. Power consumption is higher so you are always hunting for an outlet and there's the added weight of an AC adapter (none with the iPad) -- though I suppose these days you can charge MBA's with a larger battery pack. Caveat: programming doesn't work so well because the iPad (even with the keyboard/trackpad) has a "one-app at a time" interface, whereas with programming you need multiple windows open simultaneously. (iOS has a multi window interface but it isn't that great)

m0zg 7y ago

Let me un-convince you: that keyboard is $350. Disclosure: I do have an iPad Pro. I use it to watch netflix and read scientific papers (PDF). That's pretty much it.