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Any thoughts on why they’d be using Rust rather than Swift for this work?

by mch82 7y ago

simonh 7y ago
The vast majority of Apple’s data centre systems run on Linux.
- Skinney 7y ago
  Swift compiles and runs on Linux.
  - chiefsucker 7y ago
    It’s only supported on Ubuntu, not Linux in general, and it still lacks. The corporate backing is missing, and IBM going away from the Server-side Swift deal doesn’t spread confidence. The whole ecosystem just isn’t there (yet?). This rewrite isn’t only related to the current situation on Linux, but also to Swift’s current performance characteristics. Lack of full Linux support is just another hindrance, before you can consider Swift for this type of work at all.
    - bluedays 7y ago
      If it runs on Ubuntu it runs on nearly any Linux distribution.
  - simonh 7y ago
    Being useful and performant and effective, especially for a use case as critical and sensitive as security software, requires clearing a much higher bar than just 'compiles and runs'.
hombre_fatal 7y ago
If you're writing performance sensitive code and/or correct code, Rust makes more sense. Rust makes more sense for almost any use-case over Swift unless you're building Apple clients. Swift still hasn't really escaped its niche of being a language for end-users to build clients for the Apple ecosystem with trade-offs in mind for those end-users who are just building clients (rather than, say, implementing a safer openssl). For example, even Rust's web framework story is more mature and benchmark competitive than Swift's. Go to https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ and filter for just Rust and Swift. I say all this sadly as someone who builds iOS apps. I would find it very weird that someone was using Swift of all language for infrastructure projects.
- mark_l_watson 7y ago
  At the present time, I agree with you, Swift is very good for user facing software and because of the new built in support for auto differentiation it looks very promising for deep learning. I have some bias here: I am working on a book on Swift AI development. Common Lisp has been my go to language for AI since 1982, and I wanted to explore an alternative. Specific to Apple’s ecosystem, support via CoreML is very good, built in NLP libraries are also good. I wouldn’t build network software in Swift.

Any thoughts on why they’d be using Rust rather than Swift for this work?

by mch82 7y ago

Any thoughts on why they’d be using Rust rather than Swift for this work?

simonh 7y ago

The vast majority of Apple’s data centre systems run on Linux.

Skinney 7y ago
Swift compiles and runs on Linux.
- chiefsucker 7y ago
  It’s only supported on Ubuntu, not Linux in general, and it still lacks. The corporate backing is missing, and IBM going away from the Server-side Swift deal doesn’t spread confidence. The whole ecosystem just isn’t there (yet?). This rewrite isn’t only related to the current situation on Linux, but also to Swift’s current performance characteristics. Lack of full Linux support is just another hindrance, before you can consider Swift for this type of work at all.
  - bluedays 7y ago
    If it runs on Ubuntu it runs on nearly any Linux distribution.
- simonh 7y ago
  Being useful and performant and effective, especially for a use case as critical and sensitive as security software, requires clearing a much higher bar than just 'compiles and runs'.

hombre_fatal 7y ago

If you're writing performance sensitive code and/or correct code, Rust makes more sense. Rust makes more sense for almost any use-case over Swift unless you're building Apple clients. Swift still hasn't really escaped its niche of being a language for end-users to build clients for the Apple ecosystem with trade-offs in mind for those end-users who are just building clients (rather than, say, implementing a safer openssl). For example, even Rust's web framework story is more mature and benchmark competitive than Swift's. Go to https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/ and filter for just Rust and Swift. I say all this sadly as someone who builds iOS apps. I would find it very weird that someone was using Swift of all language for infrastructure projects.

mark_l_watson 7y ago
At the present time, I agree with you, Swift is very good for user facing software and because of the new built in support for auto differentiation it looks very promising for deep learning. I have some bias here: I am working on a book on Swift AI development. Common Lisp has been my go to language for AI since 1982, and I wanted to explore an alternative. Specific to Apple’s ecosystem, support via CoreML is very good, built in NLP libraries are also good. I wouldn’t build network software in Swift.