The thing is, as far as we have to deal with in the real world, there is nothing such as an absolutely isolated system. To my mind, self-reference only occurs i

The thing is, as far as we have to deal with in the real world, there is nothing such as an absolutely isolated system. To my mind, self-reference only occurs in an interpretation, thus in the frame of some actions, which are only possible in a world where changes happen, most likely changing the frame of interpretation itself.