5 ms·

(BTW, I'm the author of the tutorial) Think of it this way: when you're trying to find something in a city, doesn't it help that the buildings are all properly

(BTW, I'm the author of the tutorial) Think of it this way: when you're trying to find something in a city, doesn't it help that the buildings are all properly numbered? Sure, what's important is the building itself, not the fact that its number is 1050 or 1051. But the numbers still help you find it. Same thing with a grid, it's not the content structure, but it helps make that structure more obvious and the page easier to navigate. A page without a grid is like a city without building numbers. There may be some great museums and awesome libraries, but what use are they if nobody can find them?

tedkimble 16y ago
If your web design includes a grid of 100 elements. By all means, yes, the grid is important. But your design consists of three columns. Do you really need a 12 column grid to understand that relationship?
- sgdesign 16y ago
  OK, I get your point. That's a great point actually, and one that I will add to the article. The reason I chose 12, is that 12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 12. So even though for now I'm only using three columns, this gives you a lot of flexibility for the other pages or sections of the site. You can keep the same basic grid, but create a lot of different combinations. If I used a 3-column grid, for example, it would be impossible to obtain two equal-width columns without modifying the grid.
  - tedkimble 16y ago
    I understand the flexibility argument, and it's a valid one. If you often have grids of 2, 3, 4, or 6 columns, a 12 column grid is surely useful. I abhor grids for two reasons. One, they are often used as justification, which I find completely invalid. Two, they tend to re-enforce your pre-conceived notions of which types of web design would work well. Or even worse, they lock you into thinking that only a design which fits the grid is valid. I guess I think that grids are an unnecessary component which obstructs the possibilities of design for the web medium.
    - sgdesign 16y ago
      For me, grids play the same role as something like Rails might on the coding side. Using Rails rather than plain Ruby constrains you and "locks you" into developing your app one way. But on the other hand, it makes you so much more productive that you're then free to use your creativity towards solving more interesting problems. And it also helps you to get the basics right when you're starting out. So I agree it's a trade-off, but you shouldn't assume that grids have nothing to bring to the table.
    - wdewind 16y ago
      The grid is not a scaffolding or framework, the gridded structure is to help the reader's eyes decode and separate information.
      - tedkimble 16y ago
        What grid are you talking about? Are your eyes decoding 12 columns of information? Or is it just nice to have two things aligned with each other? I suspect it's the latter. And again, that has absolutely nothing to do with a 12 or 16 or xx grid.
Silhouette 16y ago
Perhaps your analogy with city buildings is unfortunate, given that only a few places in the world actually do have a regular, grid-like system for identifying buildings. The rest of us manage OK with other street/building layouts, and have done for as long as there have been streets and buildings. It might not be quite as efficient, but somehow we manage not to get lost all the time, and it's certainly a lot more interesting than, say, typical US-style city blocks.
- sgdesign 16y ago
  That was part of my point, in a way. I'm from Paris, which doesn't follow a US-style grid at all. We get by without a grid because we're used to it, but the city is probably harder to navigate for newcomers. So sure, you can have a great grid-less, Paris-style site. But it's much easier to get it right if you follow a grid-like NYC-style layout. And newcomers (which happen to be most visitors) will thank you for it.
- wdewind 16y ago
  Actually I think his analogy with city buildings is perfect: One of the main things design does for people is make things inherently familiar to them. Apple is the canonical example: who reads the instruction manual for an ipod? NYC's grid system makes it easy to decode the city, much in the way that a layout's grid system makes it easy for the eyes to quickly decode and separate the information.

tedkimble 16y ago

If your web design includes a grid of 100 elements. By all means, yes, the grid is important. But your design consists of three columns. Do you really need a 12 column grid to understand that relationship?

sgdesign 16y ago
OK, I get your point. That's a great point actually, and one that I will add to the article. The reason I chose 12, is that 12 is divisible by 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 12. So even though for now I'm only using three columns, this gives you a lot of flexibility for the other pages or sections of the site. You can keep the same basic grid, but create a lot of different combinations. If I used a 3-column grid, for example, it would be impossible to obtain two equal-width columns without modifying the grid.
- tedkimble 16y ago
  I understand the flexibility argument, and it's a valid one. If you often have grids of 2, 3, 4, or 6 columns, a 12 column grid is surely useful. I abhor grids for two reasons. One, they are often used as justification, which I find completely invalid. Two, they tend to re-enforce your pre-conceived notions of which types of web design would work well. Or even worse, they lock you into thinking that only a design which fits the grid is valid. I guess I think that grids are an unnecessary component which obstructs the possibilities of design for the web medium.
  - sgdesign 16y ago
    For me, grids play the same role as something like Rails might on the coding side. Using Rails rather than plain Ruby constrains you and "locks you" into developing your app one way. But on the other hand, it makes you so much more productive that you're then free to use your creativity towards solving more interesting problems. And it also helps you to get the basics right when you're starting out. So I agree it's a trade-off, but you shouldn't assume that grids have nothing to bring to the table.
  - wdewind 16y ago
    The grid is not a scaffolding or framework, the gridded structure is to help the reader's eyes decode and separate information.
    - tedkimble 16y ago
      What grid are you talking about? Are your eyes decoding 12 columns of information? Or is it just nice to have two things aligned with each other? I suspect it's the latter. And again, that has absolutely nothing to do with a 12 or 16 or xx grid.

Silhouette 16y ago

Perhaps your analogy with city buildings is unfortunate, given that only a few places in the world actually do have a regular, grid-like system for identifying buildings. The rest of us manage OK with other street/building layouts, and have done for as long as there have been streets and buildings. It might not be quite as efficient, but somehow we manage not to get lost all the time, and it's certainly a lot more interesting than, say, typical US-style city blocks.

sgdesign 16y ago
That was part of my point, in a way. I'm from Paris, which doesn't follow a US-style grid at all. We get by without a grid because we're used to it, but the city is probably harder to navigate for newcomers. So sure, you can have a great grid-less, Paris-style site. But it's much easier to get it right if you follow a grid-like NYC-style layout. And newcomers (which happen to be most visitors) will thank you for it.
wdewind 16y ago
Actually I think his analogy with city buildings is perfect: One of the main things design does for people is make things inherently familiar to them. Apple is the canonical example: who reads the instruction manual for an ipod? NYC's grid system makes it easy to decode the city, much in the way that a layout's grid system makes it easy for the eyes to quickly decode and separate the information.