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My last job in Canada the other Engineers got uppity about that with me. I studied a degree called "Software Engineering", that was 4 years with first class ho

by grecy 7y ago

My last job in Canada the other Engineers got uppity about that with me. I studied a degree called "Software Engineering", that was 4 years with first class honors. It is accredited by, and I'm a member of the Australian Institute of Engineers. The only way for me to get accredited in Canada it 2 years of relevant work experience with an accredited Engineer in my field. There are no Software Engineers in Canada.

MegaDeKay 7y ago
> There are no Software Engineers in Canada. This is absolutely false. For example, please review the "Software Engineering Experience Review Guideline" for Saskatchewan [0]. This was approved back in 2014. [0] https://www.apegs.ca/Portal/Sites-Management/FileDownload/DataDownload/5932/Software%20Engineering%20Experience%20Review%20Guideline_Jan2014/pdf/1/1033 https://www.apegs.ca/Portal/Sites-Management/FileDownload/Da...
- ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
  >Saskatchewan Fine, so there are 27 software engineers in Canada.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't do this here.
dpbriggs 7y ago
Uh, there's an entire software engineering program at the University of Waterloo: https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/programs/software-engineering https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/programs/software-engin...
- rawrfml 7y ago
  Just throwing some info out there since I graduated from this exact program. We may graduate with an engineering degree, but we technically cannot use the word engineer in our title (in Canada) until we get our accreditations, which require a couple years working in Canada under a somebody else with their P.Eng license. The vast majority of us (definitely > 90% of my class) have moved to the US after graduation where we pretty much can use whatever role we want (eg. my official title is software engineer at my company), but from what I know of the few people left in Canada, their roles are officially "programmer" or "developer". I've actually heard stories of P.Engs on messaging people in my program on LinkedIn to change their job titles to not include the word engineer. I'm not really sure what the repercussions are.
  - ramchip 7y ago
    > we technically cannot use the word engineer in our title Just for completeness: it’s OK to use the title “B. Eng.”, which means you have a Bachelor’s in engineering, without implying anything about being a professional engineer.
    - rawrfml 7y ago
      Is that so; it's been a while since I've taken my engineering ethics courses so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Thanks for letting me know.
  - ckcheng 7y ago
    Question for you then: Can you work under someone who's a P.Eng mechanical or civil engineer, and then get your own P.Eng license that way (as a software engineer)?
    - rawrfml 7y ago
      IIRC there's no limitations on who you work under provided they are licensed; P.Eng license is a not tied to any specific discipline. If I complete my engineer-in-training (4 years professional industry experience under the supervision of one (or more P.Engs)) and pass the exam component, then I will also be licensed as a P.Eng. I may choose to work as a software engineer, or any other role, but being a P.Eng means that I uphold the standards, ethics, and discipline of the engineer title.
  - dpbriggs 7y ago
    Thanks for the clarification -- I'm in CS, and did not know that.
cmrdporcupine 7y ago
Not sure why this topic is getting downvoted to oblivion. The entire Google Canada workforce just had our titles changed from 'software engineer' to 'software developer' and were asked to update linkedin profiles to reflect this, as well.
- dijit 7y ago
  Probably because it's _weird_. Protected titles seem to have differing meanings in many places. Doctor is a pretty universally understood one; yet we throw around "Architect" pretty willy nilly and it's a protected title in many more countries than Canada. Yet somehow Canada gets special consideration and other countries do not. For context: I work for a French company, and we have many Architects despite that being a protected term. But we do not have Engineers in Canada (even if they have MSc CompSci engineering degrees).
  - cmrdporcupine 7y ago
    I have been told that this in fact is only really an issue in Quebec. I am not a lawyer, but, I don't believe it's an actual issue elsewhere in Canada.
    - ckcheng 7y ago
      In Alberta too. No surprise really. Both Quebec and Alberta (also Ontario) have LOTS [1] of political influence from traditional engineering companies. You know, not that long ago in Alberta, you could use "Software Engineer" without a P.Eng license. Then the engineering society (APEGA) sued someone (Raymond Merhej) who did that [2]. But Raymond won in the courts. So APEGA appealed. But Raymond won the appeal in the courts too. So APEGA lobbied the Alberta Government to change the laws. And APEGA won. [1] An example from Quebec: SNC-Lavalin affair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair ). And from Alberta: "Kenney’s United Conservatives were elected last April on a promise to focus on oil and gas and bring jobs back to Alberta by reducing the corporate income tax rate and red tape" (Alberta government files red ink budget with focus on oil and gas, https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/government/2020/02/alberta-government-files-red-ink-budget-with-focus-on-oil-and-gas https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/government/2020... ) [2] https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engineering-name-debacle/4133 https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-eng...

by grecy 7y ago

MegaDeKay 7y ago

> There are no Software Engineers in Canada. This is absolutely false. For example, please review the "Software Engineering Experience Review Guideline" for Saskatchewan [0]. This was approved back in 2014. [0] https://www.apegs.ca/Portal/Sites-Management/FileDownload/DataDownload/5932/Software%20Engineering%20Experience%20Review%20Guideline_Jan2014/pdf/1/1033 https://www.apegs.ca/Portal/Sites-Management/FileDownload/Da...

ThePowerOfFuet 7y ago
>Saskatchewan Fine, so there are 27 software engineers in Canada.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't do this here.

dpbriggs 7y ago

Uh, there's an entire software engineering program at the University of Waterloo: https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/programs/software-engineering https://uwaterloo.ca/future-students/programs/software-engin...

rawrfml 7y ago
Just throwing some info out there since I graduated from this exact program. We may graduate with an engineering degree, but we technically cannot use the word engineer in our title (in Canada) until we get our accreditations, which require a couple years working in Canada under a somebody else with their P.Eng license. The vast majority of us (definitely > 90% of my class) have moved to the US after graduation where we pretty much can use whatever role we want (eg. my official title is software engineer at my company), but from what I know of the few people left in Canada, their roles are officially "programmer" or "developer". I've actually heard stories of P.Engs on messaging people in my program on LinkedIn to change their job titles to not include the word engineer. I'm not really sure what the repercussions are.
- ramchip 7y ago
  > we technically cannot use the word engineer in our title Just for completeness: it’s OK to use the title “B. Eng.”, which means you have a Bachelor’s in engineering, without implying anything about being a professional engineer.
  - rawrfml 7y ago
    Is that so; it's been a while since I've taken my engineering ethics courses so I'm a little fuzzy on the details. Thanks for letting me know.
- ckcheng 7y ago
  Question for you then: Can you work under someone who's a P.Eng mechanical or civil engineer, and then get your own P.Eng license that way (as a software engineer)?
  - rawrfml 7y ago
    IIRC there's no limitations on who you work under provided they are licensed; P.Eng license is a not tied to any specific discipline. If I complete my engineer-in-training (4 years professional industry experience under the supervision of one (or more P.Engs)) and pass the exam component, then I will also be licensed as a P.Eng. I may choose to work as a software engineer, or any other role, but being a P.Eng means that I uphold the standards, ethics, and discipline of the engineer title.
- dpbriggs 7y ago
  Thanks for the clarification -- I'm in CS, and did not know that.

cmrdporcupine 7y ago

Not sure why this topic is getting downvoted to oblivion. The entire Google Canada workforce just had our titles changed from 'software engineer' to 'software developer' and were asked to update linkedin profiles to reflect this, as well.

dijit 7y ago
Probably because it's _weird_. Protected titles seem to have differing meanings in many places. Doctor is a pretty universally understood one; yet we throw around "Architect" pretty willy nilly and it's a protected title in many more countries than Canada. Yet somehow Canada gets special consideration and other countries do not. For context: I work for a French company, and we have many Architects despite that being a protected term. But we do not have Engineers in Canada (even if they have MSc CompSci engineering degrees).
- cmrdporcupine 7y ago
  I have been told that this in fact is only really an issue in Quebec. I am not a lawyer, but, I don't believe it's an actual issue elsewhere in Canada.
  - ckcheng 7y ago
    In Alberta too. No surprise really. Both Quebec and Alberta (also Ontario) have LOTS [1] of political influence from traditional engineering companies. You know, not that long ago in Alberta, you could use "Software Engineer" without a P.Eng license. Then the engineering society (APEGA) sued someone (Raymond Merhej) who did that [2]. But Raymond won in the courts. So APEGA appealed. But Raymond won the appeal in the courts too. So APEGA lobbied the Alberta Government to change the laws. And APEGA won. [1] An example from Quebec: SNC-Lavalin affair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SNC-Lavalin_affair ). And from Alberta: "Kenney’s United Conservatives were elected last April on a promise to focus on oil and gas and bring jobs back to Alberta by reducing the corporate income tax rate and red tape" (Alberta government files red ink budget with focus on oil and gas, https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/government/2020/02/alberta-government-files-red-ink-budget-with-focus-on-oil-and-gas https://canada.constructconnect.com/joc/news/government/2020... ) [2] https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-engineering-name-debacle/4133 https://www.itbusiness.ca/news/it-industry-wins-round-in-eng...