5 ms·

OnLive willl give you a free console if you buy a game

58 points by zoowar 16y ago

jhuckestein 16y ago
This reminds me of the transition to SaaS. (Gaas??) Soon game devs can develop their games for idealized virtual environments which is much easier than developing for a video game console (or more than one console). If a dev needs features that a console doesn't provide, they can just 'host' it on a different data center. The slow release cycle of consoles that Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are basing their businesses on is about to be obsoleted and replaced with frequent software updates. From here, it's only a small step to conceiving a world in which it is incredibly easy to build multiplayer games, too. If the whole simulation lives on the server and nowhere else, then you don't need any network code. The OnLive team must be incredibly excited!
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- windsurfer 16y ago
  As a counter-point: Soon game devs can develop their games for idealized hardware environments which is much easier than developing for the myriad of centralized mainframes. If a dev needs features that a mainframe couldn't provide, they can build the hardware that's needed. The high cost of servers and bandwidth that Onlive are basing their businesses on is about to be obsoleted and replaced with dedicated rendering hardware for the consumer. From here, it's only a small step to conceiving a world in which it is incredibly easy to build graphically intensive games, too. If the whole simulation lives on the one piece of hardware and nowhere else, then you don't need any network code or fancy servers or massive bandwidth. I'm excited for the future console wars!
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
PureSin 16y ago
I heard about OnLive two years ago when they presented at E3. Glad to see their product is actually out and they're pushing hard to get it adapted. I'm interested to take up this offer just to test out the response time.
PHPAdam 16y ago
I had this idea years ago, but its implementation that matters for that I wish it all the best! (and its quick expansion into England)
e1ven 16y ago
Does anyone know what the cost of the Pre-Order is? I don't have an account, so can't easily check this out. I'd worked on tech like this before, but never got acceptable performance, so I'd be curious how well theirs work, if I could get it cheap.
- wmf 16y ago
  $50
sshirokov 16y ago
They also gave out a free console to anyone that pre-ordered one with intent to pay when they came out, and that came with a free game as well. If there was ever a business that got attracting customers and rewarding early adopters, it's OnLive.
chaostheory 16y ago
The big question is how good are broadband connections in the US? I can see this working in Korea, Japan, or HK really well; but I have my doubts given the wide range of internet access quality here in the US. Given the complaints about always on Internet DRM schemes, there's bound to be some problems I don't want to deal with for Onlive.
- jhuckestein 16y ago
  I don't think it has to work super well right now, the benefits are so big that we'll find a way to make this work. The first SaaS applications were horrible to use and it has taken 10 years until webapps have arrived at desktop performance (as far as responsiveness goes).
lazyronin 16y ago
I tried out OnLive over the Christmas break and it was great. Played Mafia 2 on a 4 year old MacBook and it ran perfectly. But I can't use the service because over 2 days I had used 40GB of my 65GB bandwidth (thanks Rogers). Although it's an extreme example, 3GB/hr is still too much for my capped internet service.
geuis 16y ago
Well, their UX is bad. Initially when you don't have an account and you click anywhere on the big homepage ad, it takes you to info about the offer but no where to click "Buy". So then it leads to creating an account, and after that when you click on the homepage ad it just takes you back to your account page. Edit: This might have been an instant buy for me. Except I can't figure out how to pre-order their damn game, so now I've lost interest. There's no way to even search for games. Its like no one actually sat down with a credit card and walked through the "We Like Money" part of this whole operation.
- CrazedGeek 16y ago
  You're supposed to download the desktop app and buy it through there, I think.
  - jaysonelliot 16y ago
    Helpful to know, thanks. But how would anyone ever discover that fact on their own?
- jaysonelliot 16y ago
  Fully agree. There's no clear CTA connected to the offer, so the user's only option is to fill out the form and hope it's got something to do with it. I followed the same hopeless loop you did, and lost interest as well. It may be possible to pre-order the game through the .exe they want you to install, but I've only got a Mac and a Linux box at home, and a Mac at work. It's not really worth my time to hunt down a PC just to participate in this offer. As a UX professional, things like this make me die a little inside.
  - reedlaw 16y ago
    There is a Mac client. The download starts after you register.
T-R 16y ago
Is my understanding of this correct - that they're maintaining state and performing rendering on the server for every connection to the service, and then sending each frame over the network? I am so very confused as to how this is scaling. Isn't the rule of thumb for scalability and performance to move client state and UI processing onto the client? Are they going to run an XBox VM for every simultaneously connected customer? How does it perform for games that require low controller lag, like FPS - or Megaman for that matter.
- wmf 16y ago
  Yes, it's basically VNC applied to games. I would guess that each simultaneous user has a dedicated PC on the server side.
  - CrazedGeek 16y ago
    Supposedly, they can run four or so off of the same PC for lower-end games.
  - T-R 16y ago
    That sounds very very expensive.
  - Charuru 16y ago
    It's virtualized, and considering not everyone plays games at the same time, you would prob get a lot more than 4 players per "pc"
    - T-R 16y ago
      True, but the hardware still needs to scale linearly with the number of concurrent connections, and it leaves them pretty susceptible to high traffic related problems, like at peak times when games are first released. What if someone decides to launch a DDoS? Virtualization also limits the type of games they can run - you can't run a dozen PS3 games without a dozen PS3s. On top of that, they shoulder the cost of upgrading the hardware, along with the risk - another Dreamcast (high initial sales followed by a severe dropoff) would be disastrous. I'm not sure how they can pass those costs on to their customers at a price point that's attractive to anyone who doesn't play lots of games per month (also making it possibly a net loss), or that's competitive with the more scalable, more performant, and lower risk model of running the games on the client, whether it's a console or a PC.
6ren 16y ago
I used to think this was a stupid idea, because of latency; and the only reason it got funding was because it would be fantastic for publishers (if it worked): no pirating, can charge by the hour, most people don't play their console 24/7, so it's a better utilization of resources (you can even time-zone it, albeit with worse latency), etc. But just today I recognized it as a profound disruption: a service that isn't very good, with a cheaper business model, that targets non-consumption. When the network does become good enough - and it's only getting faster - these guys will have encountered and solved all the myriad other technical problems (like iron man and altitude freeze). And they will also have solved all the problems with the business model (suppliers, charging, customer issues). It will be hard to catch them. And... turns out people are saying the latency isn't actually as off-putting as you'd think, for FPS etc. I've heard a bigger problem is with mouse-pointers - the latency between the mouse moving and the pointer moving is apparently much more perceptible. So, I say congratulations to these guys. Make a crap product for cheap; let everyone laugh at you; make it better. They are the visionary entrepreneurs, who actually change everything. No derision means no revolution.
- GeorgeTirebiter 16y ago
  OnLive was founded by Steve Perlman - one of the 3 co-founders of WebTV. Steve is the consummate Silicon Valley serial entrepreneur - brilliant geek, business guy, product visionary, cheerleader -- all rolled into one with a nice-guy personality to boot. OnLive does some spectacularly clever things to perform so well; and it will continue to deliver better and better experiences without you needing to upgrade your video card or computer. I can't say more (disclosure: I'm under NDA), but OnLive is <i>definitely</i> the Real Deal.
- div 16y ago
  I think you're exactly right. I had the same reaction the first time I read about them, then I saw their product again recently and there was no doubt anymore that this is going to be the future of gaming. True, they may not be there yet, but they most likely will.
swolchok 16y ago
Wait...this sounded fantastic, but this isn't like a normal games console or even Steam. If OnLive folds or stops supporting older games, your console is worthless, right?
- div 16y ago
  Since their model is subscription based, they don't have an incentive to stop supporting older games.
  - swolchok 16y ago
    So if I stop paying, the games I already bought are worthless, right? After all, the headline says "if you buy a game." Yech.
chris11 16y ago
I wonder how long it will take before someone hacks it to stream hulu and netflix. It should be able to if it streams video games in 720p;
Charuru 16y ago
What they really need is some sort of Flash plugin version. I have a CR-48 that would be perfect for this.

58 points by zoowar 16y ago

This reminds me of the transition to SaaS. (Gaas??) Soon game devs can develop their games for idealized virtual environments which is much easier than developing for a video game console (or more than one console). If a dev needs features that a console doesn't provide, they can just 'host' it on a different data center. The slow release cycle of consoles that Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are basing their businesses on is about to be obsoleted and replaced with frequent software updates. From here, it's only a small step to conceiving a world in which it is incredibly easy to build multiplayer games, too. If the whole simulation lives on the server and nowhere else, then you don't need any network code. The OnLive team must be incredibly excited!

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
windsurfer 16y ago
As a counter-point: Soon game devs can develop their games for idealized hardware environments which is much easier than developing for the myriad of centralized mainframes. If a dev needs features that a mainframe couldn't provide, they can build the hardware that's needed. The high cost of servers and bandwidth that Onlive are basing their businesses on is about to be obsoleted and replaced with dedicated rendering hardware for the consumer. From here, it's only a small step to conceiving a world in which it is incredibly easy to build graphically intensive games, too. If the whole simulation lives on the one piece of hardware and nowhere else, then you don't need any network code or fancy servers or massive bandwidth. I'm excited for the future console wars!

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

PureSin 16y ago

I heard about OnLive two years ago when they presented at E3. Glad to see their product is actually out and they're pushing hard to get it adapted. I'm interested to take up this offer just to test out the response time.

PHPAdam 16y ago

I had this idea years ago, but its implementation that matters for that I wish it all the best! (and its quick expansion into England)

e1ven 16y ago

Does anyone know what the cost of the Pre-Order is? I don't have an account, so can't easily check this out. I'd worked on tech like this before, but never got acceptable performance, so I'd be curious how well theirs work, if I could get it cheap.

wmf 16y ago
$50

sshirokov 16y ago

They also gave out a free console to anyone that pre-ordered one with intent to pay when they came out, and that came with a free game as well. If there was ever a business that got attracting customers and rewarding early adopters, it's OnLive.

chaostheory 16y ago

The big question is how good are broadband connections in the US? I can see this working in Korea, Japan, or HK really well; but I have my doubts given the wide range of internet access quality here in the US. Given the complaints about always on Internet DRM schemes, there's bound to be some problems I don't want to deal with for Onlive.

jhuckestein 16y ago
I don't think it has to work super well right now, the benefits are so big that we'll find a way to make this work. The first SaaS applications were horrible to use and it has taken 10 years until webapps have arrived at desktop performance (as far as responsiveness goes).

lazyronin 16y ago

I tried out OnLive over the Christmas break and it was great. Played Mafia 2 on a 4 year old MacBook and it ran perfectly. But I can't use the service because over 2 days I had used 40GB of my 65GB bandwidth (thanks Rogers). Although it's an extreme example, 3GB/hr is still too much for my capped internet service.

geuis 16y ago

Well, their UX is bad. Initially when you don't have an account and you click anywhere on the big homepage ad, it takes you to info about the offer but no where to click "Buy". So then it leads to creating an account, and after that when you click on the homepage ad it just takes you back to your account page. Edit: This might have been an instant buy for me. Except I can't figure out how to pre-order their damn game, so now I've lost interest. There's no way to even search for games. Its like no one actually sat down with a credit card and walked through the "We Like Money" part of this whole operation.

CrazedGeek 16y ago
You're supposed to download the desktop app and buy it through there, I think.
- jaysonelliot 16y ago
  Helpful to know, thanks. But how would anyone ever discover that fact on their own?
jaysonelliot 16y ago
Fully agree. There's no clear CTA connected to the offer, so the user's only option is to fill out the form and hope it's got something to do with it. I followed the same hopeless loop you did, and lost interest as well. It may be possible to pre-order the game through the .exe they want you to install, but I've only got a Mac and a Linux box at home, and a Mac at work. It's not really worth my time to hunt down a PC just to participate in this offer. As a UX professional, things like this make me die a little inside.
- reedlaw 16y ago
  There is a Mac client. The download starts after you register.

T-R 16y ago

Is my understanding of this correct - that they're maintaining state and performing rendering on the server for every connection to the service, and then sending each frame over the network? I am so very confused as to how this is scaling. Isn't the rule of thumb for scalability and performance to move client state and UI processing onto the client? Are they going to run an XBox VM for every simultaneously connected customer? How does it perform for games that require low controller lag, like FPS - or Megaman for that matter.

wmf 16y ago
Yes, it's basically VNC applied to games. I would guess that each simultaneous user has a dedicated PC on the server side.
- CrazedGeek 16y ago
  Supposedly, they can run four or so off of the same PC for lower-end games.
- T-R 16y ago
  That sounds very very expensive.
- Charuru 16y ago
  It's virtualized, and considering not everyone plays games at the same time, you would prob get a lot more than 4 players per "pc"
  - T-R 16y ago
    True, but the hardware still needs to scale linearly with the number of concurrent connections, and it leaves them pretty susceptible to high traffic related problems, like at peak times when games are first released. What if someone decides to launch a DDoS? Virtualization also limits the type of games they can run - you can't run a dozen PS3 games without a dozen PS3s. On top of that, they shoulder the cost of upgrading the hardware, along with the risk - another Dreamcast (high initial sales followed by a severe dropoff) would be disastrous. I'm not sure how they can pass those costs on to their customers at a price point that's attractive to anyone who doesn't play lots of games per month (also making it possibly a net loss), or that's competitive with the more scalable, more performant, and lower risk model of running the games on the client, whether it's a console or a PC.

6ren 16y ago

I used to think this was a stupid idea, because of latency; and the only reason it got funding was because it would be fantastic for publishers (if it worked): no pirating, can charge by the hour, most people don't play their console 24/7, so it's a better utilization of resources (you can even time-zone it, albeit with worse latency), etc. But just today I recognized it as a profound disruption: a service that isn't very good, with a cheaper business model, that targets non-consumption. When the network does become good enough - and it's only getting faster - these guys will have encountered and solved all the myriad other technical problems (like iron man and altitude freeze). And they will also have solved all the problems with the business model (suppliers, charging, customer issues). It will be hard to catch them. And... turns out people are saying the latency isn't actually as off-putting as you'd think, for FPS etc. I've heard a bigger problem is with mouse-pointers - the latency between the mouse moving and the pointer moving is apparently much more perceptible. So, I say congratulations to these guys. Make a crap product for cheap; let everyone laugh at you; make it better. They are the visionary entrepreneurs, who actually change everything. No derision means no revolution.

GeorgeTirebiter 16y ago
OnLive was founded by Steve Perlman - one of the 3 co-founders of WebTV. Steve is the consummate Silicon Valley serial entrepreneur - brilliant geek, business guy, product visionary, cheerleader -- all rolled into one with a nice-guy personality to boot. OnLive does some spectacularly clever things to perform so well; and it will continue to deliver better and better experiences without you needing to upgrade your video card or computer. I can't say more (disclosure: I'm under NDA), but OnLive is <i>definitely</i> the Real Deal.
div 16y ago
I think you're exactly right. I had the same reaction the first time I read about them, then I saw their product again recently and there was no doubt anymore that this is going to be the future of gaming. True, they may not be there yet, but they most likely will.

swolchok 16y ago

Wait...this sounded fantastic, but this isn't like a normal games console or even Steam. If OnLive folds or stops supporting older games, your console is worthless, right?

div 16y ago
Since their model is subscription based, they don't have an incentive to stop supporting older games.
- swolchok 16y ago
  So if I stop paying, the games I already bought are worthless, right? After all, the headline says "if you buy a game." Yech.

chris11 16y ago

I wonder how long it will take before someone hacks it to stream hulu and netflix. It should be able to if it streams video games in 720p;

Charuru 16y ago

What they really need is some sort of Flash plugin version. I have a CR-48 that would be perfect for this.