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A landline costs just as much as a smart phone plan, so very few people can justify the cost of both. I find that having just one end of a conversation on a lan

A landline costs just as much as a smart phone plan, so very few people can justify the cost of both. I find that having just one end of a conversation on a landline improves the quality greatly and pay the ~$40 a month to have one (also, the long ago installed alarm is hooked up to it). Smart phone to smart phone calls are bad in many ways (drops, static, distortion, etc.) but what I find the most annoying is the excess delay. The old landline to landline calls had no more delay than talking to someone in person.

toast0 7y ago
If you've got good enough wired internet, a voip based "landline" is pretty inexpensive, and if you run with the G.711 codec, it's basically landline equivalent, with a small latency penalty (much less than cellphone though). In theory G.722 (AMR-wideband, aka "HD voice") is coming to cell phones via VoLTE and is also available (in theory) via VoIP providers, and should be better than landline quality, but with added latency. Of course, once enough steps have added latency it becomes noticeable, but perhaps the increased frequency range makes it worthwhile; and it requires interop work between carriers.
- timthorn 7y ago
  Wideband AMR has been available for a decade on 3G, Eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11138503 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11138503
  - toast0 7y ago
    Being available and actually being used when making calls are unfortunately two different things.
    - timthorn 7y ago
      It's certainty been in service on the network I use for many years. It is noticeable when I call another enabled endpoint.
- doctorshady 7y ago
  The AMR wideband codec is G.722.2 - it's separate from the ADPCM implementation standardized as G.722. The two sound quite different. Everyone's ears are different, but I can't say I've been crazy about AMR wideband. Linear predictive coding in general has that characteristic underwater sound.
tjohns 7y ago
There are VoIP providers that are incredibly cheap. As an example, I have an account with voip.ms. They charge $0.85/month for the phone number, and then $0.009/minute. (E-911 service costs a little extra.) It's worth it just for having proper 911 service at home. The improved voice quality over cellular is an added benefit.
- drdeadringer 7y ago
  I was an Ooma early adopter and am still grandfathered into their initial "all calls free" program. I enjoy the call quality as much as how much I haven't had to pay for phone calls over the 11+ years. Note, I'm not including internet costs because I'd be getting that anyway.
snazz 7y ago
Most of the people I call are willing to use FaceTime Audio or Signal (in the case of FaceTime Audio they probably don't even notice that they're using it). Since everyone who calls me is usually on a cell phone anyway, I don't gain any audio quality with a landline, do I?
doctorshady 7y ago
On a fully time division multiplexed (read: no IP packets; just end-to-end multiplexed serial streams) call, it should be no more than ~40 milliseconds of latency from one side of the United States to the next, or no more than quantization delay from the g.711 codec (0.125 milliseconds) when simply traversing the bus of the local switch. Thankfully, there's discounts stashed here and there for landline phones. Some are easier to get than others, though, and it definitely doesn't help that like with anything else from a telco, the price keeps getting jacked up.
- emanuensis 7y ago
  Very very revealing! Thanks! i would assume that VoIP calling would suffer from the same "packet switching" issue that mobile telephones do:-(( With the current emergency caused by the corona virus there is a huge up tick in remote work. A whole sector of this suffers immensely from "Latency" issues. There is a huge market for the solution of that problem: Choral groups, various meditation practices involving a shared "soundscape", etc. Perhaps a quick solution for the more professional groups with that issue is to require all members to have a "Land Line" and then do a conference call.
Cd00d 7y ago
I thought that having a landline only increased exposure to spam and robocalls. How do you filter so your phone rings only from people you'd want to talk to?
- drewnick 7y ago
  My Spectrum voice service is $10/mo and has a 30-number white list. Everyone else is blocked.
- doctorshady 7y ago
  Selective call forwarding, if you have it, will get rid of a fair number of things. The do not call list as well is still surprisingly effective.
- davidajackson 7y ago
  I have a number of customers for my app CallStop who are elderly and use the app to filter calls on landlines. It works by forwarding calls from their landline to the app, and then customers receive calls via VOIP PushKit and filter them via a whitelist.
- njarboe 7y ago
  When the robo call problem spiked on my landline, I was getting 5-10 per day. Then I stated answering the phone with the phrase "Please leave a message at the tone." and made a beep noise. This got the calls down to 0-2 per day after awhile (also, I'm on the do not call list). Most people could tell it was really me and, if not, I could just wait until they said something to respond. I've heard that some organizations call numbers to see if and when actual people pick up and then sell that information to scammers. Signaling to them that the number goes to a machine seemed to reduce scam calls.
icedchai 7y ago
You can get a VOIP landline pretty cheap. I ported my 20-year old landline phone number from Verizon to a VOIP provider. I now pay $5/month for what used to cost $45.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
> The old landline to landline calls had no more delay than talking to someone in person. Depends. They had such awful sound quality that they could induce delay while you tried to understand what the other person had said.
- hmphd 7y ago
  When was this? I didn't have a cell phone for years after they were available and popular(I'm talking about iphone era and all) due to incarceration among other issues, I've spent more time than the average bear on a variety of phones. Pay or otherwise. I have never had that problem on a landline. Maybe some mild static with a cordless phone but from mid 90's on what you're describing was not a big deal at all.
dustincoates 7y ago
> A landline costs just as much as a smart phone plan, so very few people can justify the cost of both. This may be true in the US, but isn't the case everywhere. Here in France, I've got a landline number for free included with my Internet. I don't use it because I have no need (and the only people with whom I'd speak are back in the US), but it's there nonetheless.
ClikeX 7y ago
The landline in the Netherlands costs 1 euro a month extra on my home internet bill. Granted it's a digital line now, the old analog lines are disconnected. Most people I know only have a landline because they had it since before mobile phones were widespread. And many older people still call on the landline because they're just used to that number.

toast0 7y ago

If you've got good enough wired internet, a voip based "landline" is pretty inexpensive, and if you run with the G.711 codec, it's basically landline equivalent, with a small latency penalty (much less than cellphone though). In theory G.722 (AMR-wideband, aka "HD voice") is coming to cell phones via VoLTE and is also available (in theory) via VoIP providers, and should be better than landline quality, but with added latency. Of course, once enough steps have added latency it becomes noticeable, but perhaps the increased frequency range makes it worthwhile; and it requires interop work between carriers.

timthorn 7y ago
Wideband AMR has been available for a decade on 3G, Eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11138503 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11138503
- toast0 7y ago
  Being available and actually being used when making calls are unfortunately two different things.
  - timthorn 7y ago
    It's certainty been in service on the network I use for many years. It is noticeable when I call another enabled endpoint.
doctorshady 7y ago
The AMR wideband codec is G.722.2 - it's separate from the ADPCM implementation standardized as G.722. The two sound quite different. Everyone's ears are different, but I can't say I've been crazy about AMR wideband. Linear predictive coding in general has that characteristic underwater sound.

tjohns 7y ago

There are VoIP providers that are incredibly cheap. As an example, I have an account with voip.ms. They charge $0.85/month for the phone number, and then $0.009/minute. (E-911 service costs a little extra.) It's worth it just for having proper 911 service at home. The improved voice quality over cellular is an added benefit.

drdeadringer 7y ago
I was an Ooma early adopter and am still grandfathered into their initial "all calls free" program. I enjoy the call quality as much as how much I haven't had to pay for phone calls over the 11+ years. Note, I'm not including internet costs because I'd be getting that anyway.

snazz 7y ago

Most of the people I call are willing to use FaceTime Audio or Signal (in the case of FaceTime Audio they probably don't even notice that they're using it). Since everyone who calls me is usually on a cell phone anyway, I don't gain any audio quality with a landline, do I?

doctorshady 7y ago

On a fully time division multiplexed (read: no IP packets; just end-to-end multiplexed serial streams) call, it should be no more than ~40 milliseconds of latency from one side of the United States to the next, or no more than quantization delay from the g.711 codec (0.125 milliseconds) when simply traversing the bus of the local switch. Thankfully, there's discounts stashed here and there for landline phones. Some are easier to get than others, though, and it definitely doesn't help that like with anything else from a telco, the price keeps getting jacked up.

emanuensis 7y ago
Very very revealing! Thanks! i would assume that VoIP calling would suffer from the same "packet switching" issue that mobile telephones do:-(( With the current emergency caused by the corona virus there is a huge up tick in remote work. A whole sector of this suffers immensely from "Latency" issues. There is a huge market for the solution of that problem: Choral groups, various meditation practices involving a shared "soundscape", etc. Perhaps a quick solution for the more professional groups with that issue is to require all members to have a "Land Line" and then do a conference call.

Cd00d 7y ago

I thought that having a landline only increased exposure to spam and robocalls. How do you filter so your phone rings only from people you'd want to talk to?

drewnick 7y ago
My Spectrum voice service is $10/mo and has a 30-number white list. Everyone else is blocked.
doctorshady 7y ago
Selective call forwarding, if you have it, will get rid of a fair number of things. The do not call list as well is still surprisingly effective.
davidajackson 7y ago
I have a number of customers for my app CallStop who are elderly and use the app to filter calls on landlines. It works by forwarding calls from their landline to the app, and then customers receive calls via VOIP PushKit and filter them via a whitelist.
njarboe 7y ago
When the robo call problem spiked on my landline, I was getting 5-10 per day. Then I stated answering the phone with the phrase "Please leave a message at the tone." and made a beep noise. This got the calls down to 0-2 per day after awhile (also, I'm on the do not call list). Most people could tell it was really me and, if not, I could just wait until they said something to respond. I've heard that some organizations call numbers to see if and when actual people pick up and then sell that information to scammers. Signaling to them that the number goes to a machine seemed to reduce scam calls.

icedchai 7y ago

You can get a VOIP landline pretty cheap. I ported my 20-year old landline phone number from Verizon to a VOIP provider. I now pay $5/month for what used to cost $45.

thaumasiotes 7y ago

> The old landline to landline calls had no more delay than talking to someone in person. Depends. They had such awful sound quality that they could induce delay while you tried to understand what the other person had said.

hmphd 7y ago
When was this? I didn't have a cell phone for years after they were available and popular(I'm talking about iphone era and all) due to incarceration among other issues, I've spent more time than the average bear on a variety of phones. Pay or otherwise. I have never had that problem on a landline. Maybe some mild static with a cordless phone but from mid 90's on what you're describing was not a big deal at all.

dustincoates 7y ago

> A landline costs just as much as a smart phone plan, so very few people can justify the cost of both. This may be true in the US, but isn't the case everywhere. Here in France, I've got a landline number for free included with my Internet. I don't use it because I have no need (and the only people with whom I'd speak are back in the US), but it's there nonetheless.

ClikeX 7y ago

The landline in the Netherlands costs 1 euro a month extra on my home internet bill. Granted it's a digital line now, the old analog lines are disconnected. Most people I know only have a landline because they had it since before mobile phones were widespread. And many older people still call on the landline because they're just used to that number.