4 ms·

I don't see the reason to buy a such a compromised machine over a X1 Carbon or a XPS 13. No ports, crappy soldered everything, worst company for consumer rights

I don't see the reason to buy a such a compromised machine over a X1 Carbon or a XPS 13. No ports, crappy soldered everything, worst company for consumer rights, etc. They have nice screens I guess? And you can't deny the brand appeal of the Apple logo.

snazz 7y ago
For the kinds of people who wouldn’t be running Linux on the other laptops, maybe they just like macOS better than Windows? It’s not like Hackintoshing is trivial. It’s not necessarily a developer machine.
- thelittleone 7y ago
  This is pretty much it. OSX is what locks me in to Apple. Ironic that it (OSX) is free.
  - vulcan01 7y ago
    Nitpicking, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it "free". There is a cost to get it, which is the price of your Mac.
    - thelittleone 7y ago
      Fair point, although OSX can be installed on non-mac hardware (if one has the patience) or in a virtual host.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
        I haven’t checked recently, is Windows still available off-license?
- asnyder 7y ago
  Windows now has native Linux: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10, https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows-10-linux-kernel-feature https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows... Personally I just recently switched back to a Lenovo Yoga from a MBP and am much happier.
IAmEveryone 7y ago
There are certainly reasons to prefer whatever an "X1 Carbon" or "XPS 13" may be over a MacBook. But I wouldn't exactly call the latter "compromised". In fact, would the addition of whatever ports people want and the ability to switch the GPU (or whatever soldering prevents you from doing) not be the exact definition of a "compromise", i. e. turning a product that works excellently for some and not at all for others into one that is "meh, I guess" for everyone?
- lainga 7y ago
  The X1 Carbon is the flagship ThinkPad model from Lenovo. The XPS 13 is a similar offering from Dell.
hadlock 7y ago
Apple laptops are the de facto tool of silicon valley engineers and as a result they're the gold standard for developer toolchains
dangus 7y ago
The X1 Carbon and XPS 13 both have soldered RAM. The XPS 13 has no USB-A ports, the only port advantage is a microSD slot. I might remind you that SD cards have a huge speed disadvantage compared to USB 3.0/3.1 storage. It's somewhat low key, but I think SD cards are on the cusp of being obsolete and are already for many workflows. "Worst company for customer rights" kind of conveniently forgets Lenovo's own missteps (Superfish). Every time I compare Dell the comparison falls apart due to the lack of configurability. Want 16GB of RAM? Want the high DPI display? Congratulations, you must now buy the highest model, which has no price advantage over the Mac. Sure, Apple is ripping you off by forcing you to buy their soldered storage (arguably, 99% of XPS buyers will never replace the storage themselves, either, or they'd have to pay a technician to do it), but at least they aren't gatekeeping the nice screen and RAM choice to the top model.
RookyNumbas 7y ago
My partner has had a few airs over the years. Never once has she ever wanted to plug anything into any port, other than power. I think a lot of users are the same. It's a very pretty facebook machine that she has never needed tech help for. I'll stick with my XPS 13 though.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  A very expensive and overly complicated Facebook machine.
76543210 7y ago
>And you can't deny the brand appeal of the Apple logo. I would be embarrassed if I carried one around. But my friends are tech guys, not Starbucks hipsters.
- superhuzza 7y ago
  I feel like stereotyping Mac users isn't adding much to the discussion. Lots of tech companies and developers use Apple products.
- stevewodil 7y ago
  Yes, everyone who prefers macOS is a Starbucks hipster. Got it
- acheron 7y ago
  I see you’ve stepped out of a time machine from 1999. You’ve got some catching up to do.
insulanian 7y ago
In short, macOS and hardware/software synergy.
marcinzm 7y ago
For me OSX works better than Windows or desktop Linux.
rconti 7y ago
It's hard to take seriously the opinion of anyone who reduces the appeal of a computing environment to the logo on the lid.
artimaeis 7y ago
Macbook Air vs XPS 13 So right off the bat in trying to compare these computers Dell's site is leading me to 2 XPS 13s: the XPS 13 and the "New XPS 13". I'm going to assume new > old so I'll start with the "New XPS 13" which seems to be an XPS 13 9300. Starting price winner: Macbook Air! $999 vs $1299. So really the difference here is that Apple is selling a baseline i3 model with 256GB of SSD, while the base Dell is an i5 that's probably more similar to Apple's $1299 off-the-shelf option. Difference being by getting the better model Apple you also get double the SSD (512GB) while Dell is leaving you with 256GB. Which leads me to... Storage: hard to call a winner. Dell's is similar to smaller for-the-price, but seems to be replaceable. Apple's disadvantage being a lack of upgradability, but higher amounts of it per dollar. Personal preference? Memory: perfect tie, they both include 8GB of LPDDR4X at 3733MHz, and they're both soldered on-board. Display: resolution win goes to Apple for including a 2560x1600 display while Dell's is only 1920x1200. Looks like Dell _does_ include some upgrade options for $100-300 if you want to go with a touch screen and/or get 3840x1200 worth of pixels. Connectors: In count they're seemingly tied, 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports and a headphone jack. Dell pulls ahead with the microSD card slot though. Bonus points for having a port on both sides of the laptop potentially simplifying would-be cable-messes that could come of single-sided ports. Everything else seems pretty similar. Props to Apple for the touchId sensor -- similar props to Dell for including the IR camera for Windows Hello support. I dunno, I'm looking pretty closely here and I don't think either of these machines are "compromised" in any meaningful way. Apple includes the MacOS license of course, while the Dell comes with a Windows license. User preference and all.
- nickflood 7y ago
  What you're missing is that the CPU in Dell is the U series, which has a base TDP of 15 watts and goes up to 25 watts if the cooling is good. The CPU in MB Air is a 10 watt Y series, which is really weak (MacBook 12" leve weak). So you get miles more performance in Dell. Judging by the lack of comments on the CPU difference, Apple is really successful in fooling the public into thinking that a MB Air i5 is the same as any other ultrabook i5, which it is not at all. Dell's CPU: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196603/intel-core-i5-1035g1-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196603/... MB Air's CPU: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196589/intel-core-i5-1030ng7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196589/... Apple used to put the U-series CPUs into Air up until 2015, leaving the much more performant H-series for the Pro. But ever since the 2016 they now put the U-series into the 13" Pro while the Air gets a really weak CPU. They effectively shifted the performance one step up in pricing. While all the PC manufacturers stuck to using the U series in the air-like chassis,relegating the Y series to laptops that need to be very thin and light, and small tablets.
LeoPanthera 7y ago
You seem to be trying very hard to avoid the obvious reason, and the reason most people buy Macs - to run macOS. "Worst company for consumer rights" is a really big leap, too.
asdff 7y ago
So far they make the only laptops I can chuck down the stares over the course of 8 years and not skip a beat. Can't beat a solid slab of metal. The hardware is fine, price is certainly steep compared to the competition but it's scratch if I plan on owning this thing for a couple years.

snazz 7y ago

For the kinds of people who wouldn’t be running Linux on the other laptops, maybe they just like macOS better than Windows? It’s not like Hackintoshing is trivial. It’s not necessarily a developer machine.

thelittleone 7y ago
This is pretty much it. OSX is what locks me in to Apple. Ironic that it (OSX) is free.
- vulcan01 7y ago
  Nitpicking, but I wouldn't necessarily consider it "free". There is a cost to get it, which is the price of your Mac.
  - thelittleone 7y ago
    Fair point, although OSX can be installed on non-mac hardware (if one has the patience) or in a virtual host.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
      I haven’t checked recently, is Windows still available off-license?
asnyder 7y ago
Windows now has native Linux: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10, https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows-10-linux-kernel-feature https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/6/18534687/microsoft-windows... Personally I just recently switched back to a Lenovo Yoga from a MBP and am much happier.

IAmEveryone 7y ago

There are certainly reasons to prefer whatever an "X1 Carbon" or "XPS 13" may be over a MacBook. But I wouldn't exactly call the latter "compromised". In fact, would the addition of whatever ports people want and the ability to switch the GPU (or whatever soldering prevents you from doing) not be the exact definition of a "compromise", i. e. turning a product that works excellently for some and not at all for others into one that is "meh, I guess" for everyone?

lainga 7y ago
The X1 Carbon is the flagship ThinkPad model from Lenovo. The XPS 13 is a similar offering from Dell.

hadlock 7y ago

Apple laptops are the de facto tool of silicon valley engineers and as a result they're the gold standard for developer toolchains

dangus 7y ago

The X1 Carbon and XPS 13 both have soldered RAM. The XPS 13 has no USB-A ports, the only port advantage is a microSD slot. I might remind you that SD cards have a huge speed disadvantage compared to USB 3.0/3.1 storage. It's somewhat low key, but I think SD cards are on the cusp of being obsolete and are already for many workflows. "Worst company for customer rights" kind of conveniently forgets Lenovo's own missteps (Superfish). Every time I compare Dell the comparison falls apart due to the lack of configurability. Want 16GB of RAM? Want the high DPI display? Congratulations, you must now buy the highest model, which has no price advantage over the Mac. Sure, Apple is ripping you off by forcing you to buy their soldered storage (arguably, 99% of XPS buyers will never replace the storage themselves, either, or they'd have to pay a technician to do it), but at least they aren't gatekeeping the nice screen and RAM choice to the top model.

RookyNumbas 7y ago

My partner has had a few airs over the years. Never once has she ever wanted to plug anything into any port, other than power. I think a lot of users are the same. It's a very pretty facebook machine that she has never needed tech help for. I'll stick with my XPS 13 though.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
A very expensive and overly complicated Facebook machine.

76543210 7y ago

>And you can't deny the brand appeal of the Apple logo. I would be embarrassed if I carried one around. But my friends are tech guys, not Starbucks hipsters.

superhuzza 7y ago
I feel like stereotyping Mac users isn't adding much to the discussion. Lots of tech companies and developers use Apple products.
stevewodil 7y ago
Yes, everyone who prefers macOS is a Starbucks hipster. Got it
acheron 7y ago
I see you’ve stepped out of a time machine from 1999. You’ve got some catching up to do.

insulanian 7y ago

In short, macOS and hardware/software synergy.

marcinzm 7y ago

For me OSX works better than Windows or desktop Linux.

rconti 7y ago

It's hard to take seriously the opinion of anyone who reduces the appeal of a computing environment to the logo on the lid.

artimaeis 7y ago

Macbook Air vs XPS 13 So right off the bat in trying to compare these computers Dell's site is leading me to 2 XPS 13s: the XPS 13 and the "New XPS 13". I'm going to assume new > old so I'll start with the "New XPS 13" which seems to be an XPS 13 9300. Starting price winner: Macbook Air! $999 vs $1299. So really the difference here is that Apple is selling a baseline i3 model with 256GB of SSD, while the base Dell is an i5 that's probably more similar to Apple's $1299 off-the-shelf option. Difference being by getting the better model Apple you also get double the SSD (512GB) while Dell is leaving you with 256GB. Which leads me to... Storage: hard to call a winner. Dell's is similar to smaller for-the-price, but seems to be replaceable. Apple's disadvantage being a lack of upgradability, but higher amounts of it per dollar. Personal preference? Memory: perfect tie, they both include 8GB of LPDDR4X at 3733MHz, and they're both soldered on-board. Display: resolution win goes to Apple for including a 2560x1600 display while Dell's is only 1920x1200. Looks like Dell _does_ include some upgrade options for $100-300 if you want to go with a touch screen and/or get 3840x1200 worth of pixels. Connectors: In count they're seemingly tied, 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports and a headphone jack. Dell pulls ahead with the microSD card slot though. Bonus points for having a port on both sides of the laptop potentially simplifying would-be cable-messes that could come of single-sided ports. Everything else seems pretty similar. Props to Apple for the touchId sensor -- similar props to Dell for including the IR camera for Windows Hello support. I dunno, I'm looking pretty closely here and I don't think either of these machines are "compromised" in any meaningful way. Apple includes the MacOS license of course, while the Dell comes with a Windows license. User preference and all.

nickflood 7y ago
What you're missing is that the CPU in Dell is the U series, which has a base TDP of 15 watts and goes up to 25 watts if the cooling is good. The CPU in MB Air is a 10 watt Y series, which is really weak (MacBook 12" leve weak). So you get miles more performance in Dell. Judging by the lack of comments on the CPU difference, Apple is really successful in fooling the public into thinking that a MB Air i5 is the same as any other ultrabook i5, which it is not at all. Dell's CPU: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196603/intel-core-i5-1035g1-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-60-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196603/... MB Air's CPU: https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196589/intel-core-i5-1030ng7-processor-6m-cache-up-to-3-50-ghz.html https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/196589/... Apple used to put the U-series CPUs into Air up until 2015, leaving the much more performant H-series for the Pro. But ever since the 2016 they now put the U-series into the 13" Pro while the Air gets a really weak CPU. They effectively shifted the performance one step up in pricing. While all the PC manufacturers stuck to using the U series in the air-like chassis,relegating the Y series to laptops that need to be very thin and light, and small tablets.

LeoPanthera 7y ago

You seem to be trying very hard to avoid the obvious reason, and the reason most people buy Macs - to run macOS. "Worst company for consumer rights" is a really big leap, too.

asdff 7y ago

So far they make the only laptops I can chuck down the stares over the course of 8 years and not skip a beat. Can't beat a solid slab of metal. The hardware is fine, price is certainly steep compared to the competition but it's scratch if I plan on owning this thing for a couple years.