5 ms·

I'm not sure why Apple gets all this credit for making a reliable keyboard, something the rest of the industry figured out decades ago.

gnulinux 7y ago
I bought a ThinkPad X1 Carbon 7th Gen a few months back. I can't say the keyboard is amazing. Compared any other laptop, sure it's better, but still subpar. I think old Macbooks had better keyboard.
thrav 7y ago
Because they’re usually making it a fraction of the size / depth of most of the rest of the industry.
- Traster 7y ago
  At 0.13cm thicker than the dell XPS13, I don't think they're really doing anything crazy slim.
cpach 7y ago
The rest of the industry…? At work we have lots of Lenovo and HP laptops and those keyboards are, IMO, clearly inferior to my MBA 2012.
- mx24 7y ago
  ThinkPads are well known for having great keyboards. Apple’s do not compare.
  - pfranz 7y ago
    I think it's fair to compare. Excluding Apple's recent scissor switch keyboard, they've both been reliable and serviceable. They've both had a following over many years. Aesthetically, I've preferred Apple's keyboards and I'm sure many people feel conversely.
- JohnTHaller 7y ago
  You may not like the feel, but the keys don't stop working like the 2015-2019 MacBooks.
  - abrowne 7y ago
    Pedantic: the bad ("butterfly") keyboards started with the 2016 models: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300#:~:text=2016 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300#:~:text=2016
    - dsrw 7y ago
      That link only refers to the MacBook Pro. The 2015 MacBook had a butterfly keyboard.
      - abrowne 7y ago
        You're right! I always forget about the MacBook. But the 2015 MacBook Pro still had a keyboard deserving of the "best laptop ever made": https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever
- Userno1122 7y ago
  Compare the same price MacBook for the same price Lenovo, and you will see how the rest of the industry has clearly figured it out. Not shilling for Lenovo, but yeah, there's nothing special about it.
  - lozaning 7y ago
    You can pry the x220 classic keyboard I've got on my x220 daily driver from my cold dead fingers.
    - et-al 7y ago
      And even if they did manage to pry it away, you can order a replacement keyboard and install it yourself without any special tools.
- Niccizero 7y ago
  Even regular cheap Lenovos have great keyboards compared to most laptops. Newer HPs are supricingly good, keys are too flat though and makes typing painful. Dells are atrocious, which sucks because 8-yrs ago they had among the best keyboards (together with Lenovo Thinkpads). Thinkpads are still ahead of the pack but they've been cutting travel lately in the thinner models.
- panzagl 7y ago
  The problem is, PC laptops used to have great keyboards until they all decided they had to be just like Apple.
- ksk 7y ago
  People seem to like apple keyboards, and I believe that they sincerely do, but it never made any sense to me. Apple has always had average/poor ergonomics in my book, from their weirdly shaped mice to slippery phones that people keep dropping.
ksk 7y ago
A bit salty, but definitely a kernel of truth there :P Their earlier power adapters were notoriously susceptible to fraying (aka fire hazards), and the bricks had no grounding IIRC. I'm completely out of their ecosystem so I don't know if that's been fixed. (Again one of those things other manufacturers figured out years ago)
bluedino 7y ago
They make a reliable + great keyboard Lots of keyboards are reliable, few of them are 'good'. Lenovo is probably the only other one.

gnulinux 7y ago

I bought a ThinkPad X1 Carbon 7th Gen a few months back. I can't say the keyboard is amazing. Compared any other laptop, sure it's better, but still subpar. I think old Macbooks had better keyboard.

thrav 7y ago

Because they’re usually making it a fraction of the size / depth of most of the rest of the industry.

Traster 7y ago
At 0.13cm thicker than the dell XPS13, I don't think they're really doing anything crazy slim.

cpach 7y ago

The rest of the industry…? At work we have lots of Lenovo and HP laptops and those keyboards are, IMO, clearly inferior to my MBA 2012.

mx24 7y ago
ThinkPads are well known for having great keyboards. Apple’s do not compare.
- pfranz 7y ago
  I think it's fair to compare. Excluding Apple's recent scissor switch keyboard, they've both been reliable and serviceable. They've both had a following over many years. Aesthetically, I've preferred Apple's keyboards and I'm sure many people feel conversely.
JohnTHaller 7y ago
You may not like the feel, but the keys don't stop working like the 2015-2019 MacBooks.
- abrowne 7y ago
  Pedantic: the bad ("butterfly") keyboards started with the 2016 models: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300#:~:text=2016 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201300#:~:text=2016
  - dsrw 7y ago
    That link only refers to the MacBook Pro. The 2015 MacBook had a butterfly keyboard.
    - abrowne 7y ago
      You're right! I always forget about the MacBook. But the 2015 MacBook Pro still had a keyboard deserving of the "best laptop ever made": https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever
Userno1122 7y ago
Compare the same price MacBook for the same price Lenovo, and you will see how the rest of the industry has clearly figured it out. Not shilling for Lenovo, but yeah, there's nothing special about it.
- lozaning 7y ago
  You can pry the x220 classic keyboard I've got on my x220 daily driver from my cold dead fingers.
  - et-al 7y ago
    And even if they did manage to pry it away, you can order a replacement keyboard and install it yourself without any special tools.
Niccizero 7y ago
Even regular cheap Lenovos have great keyboards compared to most laptops. Newer HPs are supricingly good, keys are too flat though and makes typing painful. Dells are atrocious, which sucks because 8-yrs ago they had among the best keyboards (together with Lenovo Thinkpads). Thinkpads are still ahead of the pack but they've been cutting travel lately in the thinner models.
panzagl 7y ago
The problem is, PC laptops used to have great keyboards until they all decided they had to be just like Apple.
ksk 7y ago
People seem to like apple keyboards, and I believe that they sincerely do, but it never made any sense to me. Apple has always had average/poor ergonomics in my book, from their weirdly shaped mice to slippery phones that people keep dropping.

ksk 7y ago

A bit salty, but definitely a kernel of truth there :P Their earlier power adapters were notoriously susceptible to fraying (aka fire hazards), and the bricks had no grounding IIRC. I'm completely out of their ecosystem so I don't know if that's been fixed. (Again one of those things other manufacturers figured out years ago)

bluedino 7y ago

They make a reliable + great keyboard Lots of keyboards are reliable, few of them are 'good'. Lenovo is probably the only other one.